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Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

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Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

grand daddy of jkd and full contact fighting= Bruce lee
8
62%
the undesputed cahmpion and inventor of bjj= Helio Gracie
5
38%
 
Total votes : 13

Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Tchernobog » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:02 am

Shadow wrote:With the information I have, and the consensus of others, I have no choice but to agree. It would be cool to see a computer fight with strenghts and weakness. It would be cool to see it in the Human Weapon or that new they have out now. I don't recall the name, pits like ninja vs. gladiator, and the like.



Deadliest Warrior and that is an awesome idea. Then they could do Ali vs. Tyson. :wink:
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:53 pm

no not right!
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby nickpedo777 » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:50 pm

I didn't even try to vote because that's a tough decision!! I think it depends on the situation. If Bruce Lee could keep the fight standing, the win would be ALL his!! However, if Gracie got Bruce to the ground, a tapout would be in play. And maybe even a tapout that would go unnoticed until the ref stopped the match. lol! So, yeah! That's a hard decision. Also, consider the fact that in jkd, the fighter usually try their best to stay off the ground, ending with a serious rush of strikes leaving their opponent blacked out! :shock:
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:50 am

Helio participated in Vale Tudo fights in Brazil and had a good record from what I understand, He taught a martial art that was based on his experience and the very fact that MMA fights are in existance and on cable kind of have to think back to those days...and bruce lee made five movies......

You decide!
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:22 am

Bruce was a great martial artist, in a martial art that was very limited! His style of fighting was limited by the types of martial arts he was exposed to. he had wing chun training ( only 3 years by some accounts) but he studied Boxing, Judo and TKD by reading books only. He formed his style of JKD based on his 3 years of wing chun and his practice time with the other styles, but if you read lots of his diary pages and the like you see were he is frustrated by not being able to beat specific techniques and having to adopt them. he had VERY limited grappling experience. Some Judo from books and some wrestling with students that were wrestlers, but he even stated in one of his books (got it at home not here at work) that because of his frame and size he had to stick to striking and left the grappling training kind of out. I KNOW I could beat Bruce Lee...guy has been Dead for 30+ years, If I can find enough of him to wrestle I would do it! When he was alive I was a punk kid in a Karate club with Sambo training and some Judo. Actually I think I started Judo the year he died!

Their is a big difference between club sparring and a MMA match, in club sparring you can stop...back up and retry something and not get a penalty, in MMA if you stop you probably have lost. IN a real fight if you stop you have lost, and more than just a match...probably your teeth! Bruce was never in a tournament under controlled settings and his street fighting is listed but sketchy in his books. His brother said he left Hong Kong because he was getting into fights and getting picked on because he was a child actor. He says his father sent him away because he was hurting people in street fights, Something tells me he was real good at marketing even back then.

Most good fighters I know of were bouncers or did it in the ring. I have tones of friends in the martial arts who are great in the club, but put them in the street and I am not going to bet on them winning a fight! Being good at forms and doing controlled sparring with little to no contact is very different from getting hit in the face and wrestling around with someone or actually trying to hit a guy. I will post a few of my funny stories in the other part of the forum tonight if I can grab a few minutes.....My point is that many good martial arts guys cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag, they are still great at martial arts, good technques...fast and powerful, but come time for a real fight and they mentally shut it down!


My point, and I am not a big BJJ nut hugger here is that Helio did what Bruce talked about. In a fight Helio was good at taking it to the ground and tapping or snapping or making a guy nap! bruce talked about it and even wrote a book or two about it. Helio took on all comers no matter what weight and what style, he prefered no rules, no pads or gloves and he had a very good record of NHB fights, he got the crap kicked out of him and did not flintch. He created a martial art that was very good in one specific thing, ground skills. bruce on the other hand never had a documented fight in his life. the one that he talks about in his book for the right to teach us round eyes his style of kung fu is and always will be pure fiction. His wife even came out and said it was not true, it was dramatic enough to base a part of a movie on however. In his biography he states he got kicked in the back and that is how he hurt himself, not true...he hurt his back doing weights. In the book...made into a movie...he says he came back and destroyed the guy in under a minutes at Ed Parkers tournament.....not ture...he was at parkers tournament but he only demo'd his art with a student holding a pad.

To compaire Helio Gracie to Bruce Lee is a bit like compairing Ali to Will Smith...hell at least smith played Ali at one point. Yah, Lee created this very snappy and smart style that draws from many sources to create a cohesive style...but the end result is that Lee vs Gracie is not a fair fight, Gracie knows what he will do when he gets hit in the face and Lee does not.

End result, Lee may KO Gracie with speed and power, but the smart mans money would be on a bloodied up Gracie comeing back and snapping Lee like a twig and Lee wondering what the hell just happened....
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:06 am

No problem. And no, I actually dont put anyone in the "Snow ball" catagory...more like unlikely!
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby ad baculam » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:05 am

Ok, better question (and probably impossible) both men in their prime, and Bruce with 8 years freestyle wrestling expireance and boxing expireance. So we have the clear advantage in athleticism to bruce, but th expirance advantage would still go to Helio. Who wins?
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby DisciplineHopes » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:47 am

i dont think anyone with years of training is hopeless against someone of talents like these two. isnt that pretty much what MA-ist's are? disciplined individuals who dont have to test their skills.
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:56 am

Well, they were both the same height but Lee...at his biggest and after a tone of Body building was 160 pounds and Gracie was 185. all things being equial....on the feet Bruce might take it...on the ground Gracie kills him no doubt.
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby DisciplineHopes » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:30 pm

gotta love debating or should i say wondering something that could never happen. but i agree. two different styles so each would hope to keep it to their level.
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:45 pm

And I can agree that Lee had a good chance on his feet.
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby g4m4l31r » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:58 pm

noone would be better than bruce le if he was alive :x
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Re: Bruce lee vs Helio Gracie

Postby Kensei » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:27 am

g4m4l31r wrote:noone would be better than bruce le if he was alive :x



The funny thing about statements like that are that when an alive person says it...its right before he gets his ass kicked...Fedor, Chuck, Brock, BJ, GSP..they have all been beat and no on is the best...maybe the better man at that time...but not all the time. Real fighters say "I was the better man tonight" not "I am the best" or at least not seriously!

When someone says that about someone else...alive or dead, it shows that they either have a bit of an issue with hero worship or they just donet get it.

Like I have been saying about this silly subject, Lee was an actor with some striking skills and athleticism....Gracie was a fighter!

That being said, Lee had a strikers chance..but then again..who doesnt.
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