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Get over it Bruce was best fighter in the world

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Postby Kensei » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:32 am

donovan99 wrote:
Kensei wrote:Lee did not enter any boxing, kick boxing, Karate, Full contact bouts anywere at any time....but he was the Cha Cha champion of Hong Kong if that helps.


LOL


Dont laugh, youever try to Cha Cha, A guy could get hurt doing that stuff :wink:
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Postby HumbleIsaac » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:41 am

I do so believe that once while on the set of Enter the Dragon Wall said that Bruce was an actor and not a fighter (Wall being a very prominent martial artist at the time) so Bruce kindly asked him to duel and by the end, Wall gave his own testimonial on Bruce's power.

Bruce was a great man, while others tried to perfect seemingly useless techniques so that they may apply in some ridiculous event, Bruce took what worked and applied it. He was extremely nimble and had a very very tight diet (he would not eat bread and many other items because they had 'empty calories') and was also a bodybuilder.

The one inch punch was derived for the short comings of very close range combat, and Bruce did condition his knuckles, thrusting his hands into buckets of gravel approximately 500 times per day.

He was also great in the fact he shared martial arts with the world, and without him, you might not have even had the thought to ever pursue the martial arts, because it wouldn't be as prominent as it is today.
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Postby Kensei » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:01 pm

HumbleIsaac wrote:I do so believe that once while on the set of Enter the Dragon Wall said that Bruce was an actor and not a fighter (Wall being a very prominent martial artist at the time) so Bruce kindly asked him to duel and by the end, Wall gave his own testimonial on Bruce's power.

Bruce was a great man, while others tried to perfect seemingly useless techniques so that they may apply in some ridiculous event, Bruce took what worked and applied it. He was extremely nimble and had a very very tight diet (he would not eat bread and many other items because they had 'empty calories') and was also a bodybuilder.

The one inch punch was derived for the short comings of very close range combat, and Bruce did condition his knuckles, thrusting his hands into buckets of gravel approximately 500 times per day.

He was also great in the fact he shared martial arts with the world, and without him, you might not have even had the thought to ever pursue the martial arts, because it wouldn't be as prominent as it is today.


close but not 100% but good post...keep trying! the sand bag thing with 500 punches....not true, but that is from a old wives tale in Martial arts!
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Postby HumbleIsaac » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:24 am

Not a sandbag, but a bucket full of gravel (more specifically, cat tray gravel, or 'kitty litter') if you can find the first season of The Green Hornet DVD, collectors edition Van Williams, the actor of the character Britt Reid aka the Green Hornet was absolutely amazed at Bruce's intense training, one of the many tasks he performed that Van was amazed at, was as i said before 'Bruce 'conditioned' his knuckles, thrusting his hands into buckets of gravel approximately 500 times per day!'
Most DVD stores can order in movies, just ask your local and they would be more than happy to.
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Yuz gotsta b kiddin me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby djlang_18 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:35 pm

Sorry, don’t have too much time, but I saw this discussion and HAD to jump in. This is, after all, something I’m passionate about and adamant on getting across to others.
So, to all the naysayers out there, baggin’ on Bruce: say what you may, but I firmly believe Bruce could’ve taken anybody, in his time or ours. His style was strictly for combat, not merely show (although you gotta admit, it was cool to watch, too). If you don’t believe me, at least believe his closest friends, who trained with, sparred with, and conversed with him. Jhoon Rhee, Dan Inosanto, Linda Lee Caldwell (wife) and many others all confirm their beliefs that he was the best. Ok, you say, but let’s say he went up against a Muay Thai boxer in their prime. (I’ve heard this surprisingly often.) “You could show him a tremendously difficult technique that took years to perfect, and the next time you saw him, he would do it better than you.” –Jhoon Rhee. That is, Bruce was very, very adaptive. In America, he studied Western Boxing and Wrestling. He got pinned by a skilled wrestler. After a few more humiliating encounters, Lee trained in the grappling/submission aspect of martial arts until he found himself proficient in it, adding this to his arsenal of striking, blocking, etc. Through his studies of fencing, he understood and was able to utilize such concepts as: timing, the simultaneous parry and strike, “closing the gap”, and “reading the opponent’s rhythm”. These would all prove effective, and quite frightening, in a hand-to-hand combat scenario. He was VERY smart in every sense of the word, and his speed—coupled with his no less than perfect timing—offered a challenge which frustrated the opponent to the point that, had they not been fighting Bruce, they might not have realized they had been beaten. But they were. Every day, he increased in every aspect of his superiority. One friend, who had also made countless training tools for Bruce, was about to begin construction of a mechanical dummy, as opposed to the wooden type, which were obliterated by Lee’s sheer power. Unfortunately, Bruce died before any of it was started, but that just goes to show…
Chuck Norris was not at his best when he took on Bruce in the Way of the Dragon, so one cannot say for sure who would have really one had they both been at the top of their games. But I think its safe to say, and that Chuck would agree, BRUCE WAS THE BEST.

Boo-yah!

Again, Sorry it was so blunt (I’d love to say more). If anyone else would like to add more in Bruce’s defense, or, indeed, to the contrary, I’ll be glad to hear it.
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Postby djlang_18 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:09 pm

Oh, now that i've had a quick look at the discussion, let me say, specifically to Kensai that, though i admire your admittance to the fact that Bruce was an intelligent person, and an inspiring, excellent instructor (some would go so far to even disagree with such), i would like to ask you one question: What, in your opinion, would make the Greatest Fighter in the World? (NO hiding around the bush answers, just list the qualities for argument's sake.) Here's what I think; He(or she) would have to be:
Smart (intelligent, not so much knowledgable), Practical, great timimg, Fast, Powerful, Strong (there is a difference and both are important.), flexibility, proper technique, actually, i can't list them all for sake of time and space, but of those i listed, you can't deny Bruce hit each and every mark. I can't see how anyone could even doubt this. I don't want to give off a negative feeling towards you here, but this kind of talk has gotten quite annoying.

As for respecting Bruce, I think revealing him as he was--a smart man, an envisionary, an excellent teacher AND A FIGHTER-- would be doing just that.

As a side note, do you seriously think that because Chuck Norris outweighed Lee, he would beat him by strength? Sad, really. I'd think someone so educated in the subject of Bruce Lee, you would at least understand what power really is, otherwise you would not be so quick to say such things. Sad... :roll:
Last edited by djlang_18 on Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Yuz gotsta b kiddin me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Kensei » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:21 pm

djlang_18 wrote:If you don’t believe me, at least believe his closest friends, who trained with, sparred with, and conversed with him. Jhoon Rhee, Dan Inosanto, Linda Lee Caldwell (wife) and many others all confirm their beliefs that he was the best.


Of course they did.....Not only are they friends and family, but some of them are still collecting off his name. that would be like Elvis' family saying he was an okay singer! Get real, what are they going to say "well he was a fine actor, for a TMA actor and he was a fair Wing Chun guy with great physical conditioning? Not a good argument, if people he did not like said that he was great and guys that did not have a fortune riding on the name of their dead friend and family member came out saying he was great then I would put more weight in it...but OF COURSE THEY SAY THAT! Geez!!!

djlang_18 wrote:Chuck Norris was not at his best when he took on Bruce in the Way of the Dragon, so one cannot say for sure who would have really one had they both been at the top of their games. But I think its safe to say, and that Chuck would agree, BRUCE WAS THE BEST.


You are kidding right???? Bruce and Chuck did not take each other on in the movie...IT WAS A MOVIE, it was set up...you know like...ACTING! I loved bruce lee movies and have all his movies, heck I was probably watching them before some of you were born, but I am not some kid or guy thinking that any of what Lee did was real! It was coreographed and set up! If Chuck had gotten into a fight with Lee one of them would be turffed, and it would have been Chuck, he was basically starting out in movies and that would have ended that little gig! Get over it people they did not really fight, if you think that was real then why is Chuck still making movies, HE DIED at the end of that movie! But only as an actor! geez!

djlang_18 wrote:Again, Sorry it was so blunt (I’d love to say more). If anyone else would like to add more in Bruce’s defense, or, indeed, to the contrary, I’ll be glad to hear it.


I am sorry to be blunt as well, I think that if we respect and truely look at Bruce Lee for what he was, a good actor, a trail blazer in the movie industry and a good athlete with good ideas we will be paying him a great bit more respect than making him this great fighter than created a way of fighting.

Just think we all need to stop living in the movies and remember two things, he did not finish his Wing Chun training and Yip Man went on record saying he was an okay student, but not his best...and two, he was a good enough actor to spear head a new age of movies and a new age for martial arts in the movies...but that is all!
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Postby djlang_18 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm

Training with Bruce Lee
An Interview by Thomas Nilsson
Few people have a martial arts resume as impressive as that of Jhoon Rhee, the so-called "father of American taekwondo." Rhee created the safety gear students wear when they spar. He is the orchestrator of "martial ballet" - synchronized taekwondo sessions performed to classical music. He is noted for teaching congressmen martial arts on Capitol Hill and for arranging tournaments between Republicans and Democrats. His noble efforts to set a proper course for America's youth have been well-documented. Hi s Jhoon Rhee Foundation is involved in teaching his "Joy of Discipline" program to public school children, and his Jhoon Rhee Institute continues to maintain a highly visible martial arts profile not only in the United States, but also in Russia, where Rhee has opened an additional 65 schools.
Yet few people know this 63-year-old Black Belt Hall of Fame member had a tumulus childhood, in which he was often bullied at school. Few know about his harrowing escape from communist clutches at the outset of the Korean War. Or about his convoluted journey to the "land of the brave and the free." Or that he can do a mind-boggling 100 push-ups in one minute. Or about Rhee's vow to live to be 137 years old.
And fewer still know about his close friendship with Bruce Lee. Rhee, in fact, is credited with teaching Lee the finer points for high kicking. During the course of their 10-year friendship, Lee wrote nearly 50 letters to Rhee, as the two exchanged concepts and ideas on martial arts training. The letters form the basis of a book Rhee is writing titled Bruce Lee and I.
In the following interview, Rhee recounts the time he spent with Lee, from their training sessions together, to their more personal, introspective moments, to his Hong Kong visit with the "Dragon" two weeks before he died.
BLACK BELT: What prompted you to write a book about your friendship with Lee?
JHOON RHEE: About two years ago, I went through all the letters that I have received from Bruce, and I just couldn't believe how much he had done for me. I didn't remember most of them, but they were very interesting. Despite his young age, Bruce was already quite a philosopher, and I felt I really should share his true character with all of his fans.
BB: Being the training fanatic that he was, it's hard to imagine when Lee had the time to take a pen to paper.
RHEE: Well, nobody is too busy for important things. I think it was very important to Bruce to keep up a correspondence with his friends. He really valued his friends, and he was never too busy to write.
BB: And in those letters, Lee often waxed philosophical?
RHEE: Yes. Bruce studied philosophy for a while, and in one of his letters he wrote me a poem [titled] “Who am I? What am I?" If you read this little piece, I think you will see that there was a depth in his philosophy. He was a thinker.
BB: How did you meet Lee?
RHEE: We first met at Ed Parker's International Championships in Long Beach, California, on August 2, 1964, where we both gave demonstrations. I was 32 and Bruce was 23. I was very impressed with his demonstration -especially with his close-quarter hand techniques, which he delivered blindfolded - and with his showmanship as well. Bruce told me that he was impressed by my high jump kick that broke three boards eight feet up in the air, and also by my triple kick that I demonstrated. Bruce had an eight millimeter home movie of my demonstration and kept it for many years. [His wife] Linda [Lee Caldwell] sent me that piece of film after his death.
BB: High kicking was something new for the ever-practical Lee, who rarely kicked above waist level. Did you two ever break boards together?
RHEE: I think it was 1967 when Bruce first broke boards. He saw a lot of them lying around in my garage and told me that he would like to try them out. He had never broken a board before, but only a few months later, Bruce broke more boards than I did! In fact, he side jump-kicked four one-inch dangling boards and broke every one of them. He really had tremendous momentum and power in his kicks. It's true that I was the one who first introduced high kicks to Bruce and, in return, Bruce gave me some ideas o f hand techniques, mainly showing me how to be "non-telegraphic" when punching.
BB: Why do you think Lee is still popular nearly 23 years after his death?
RHEE: His name is still the biggest in the martial arts. When I went to Russia, I met people who didn't know about Muhammad Ali, but they all knew Bruce Lee. I think the reason for his [continuing] popularity is that he really electrified human emotions on the screen. Anybody who watches his movies feels this electricity. And Bruce also had something that most other people don't have: a tremendous charisma, on the screen and in life.
BB: Lee was a guest of honor at many of your tournaments, was he not?
RHEE: He was a guest of honor at my national championships for six consecutive years, from 1965 to 1970. Bruce performed two-finger push-ups, broke boards and knocked people out with his one-inch punch every time he came. In 1970, he came with his lovely wife Linda, they went on stage, and Linda was throwing Bruce all over the place. It was a pretty comical demonstration that people enjoyed very much.
BB: Some people felt Lee came off as cocky. What do you think?
RHEE: Some people thought Bruce was cocky, but with his skills, he had a right to be cocky. He was very young, and at that age everyone is a bit cocky. That attitude never bothered me. In fact, I liked Bruce's cockiness because he was never cocky in an "ugly" manner. His cockiness was quite "cute." Most people really loved him, and those martial artists who didn't were probably just jealous of his skills.
BB: Do you think Lee's attitude caused some people in the martial arts community to dislike him?
RHEE: Well, you know, everybody has their own opinions and, yes, Bruce made some enemies. But I too made enemies. No one can ever please everyone. There were a number of people who didn't like Bruce, but when you are as frank as he was, you can not avoid offending people. I think there are some movie stars in Hong Kong who didn't like the success he achieved there. They were jealous.
BB: Did Lee ever tell you what he thought of taekwondo as a fighting art?
RHEE: Bruce never judged the [arts], claiming that taekwondo or karate was good or bad, he always judged the individual. He told me he found some taekwondo people that were good, and some that weren't as good.
BB: What were some of your impressions of Lee as your friendship with him evolved?
RHEE: Like everyone else, he grew physically and mentally over the years. After his TV series, The Green Hornet, was canceled, Bruce was out of work and he took on private students, but it didn't really pay all that well. He got by, but it was obviously a pretty frustrating time for him, and I think it was during this suffering period that Bruce really grew up mentally. Bruce always liked to joke and make people laugh; he was a very jovial person to be around. But he was also a very mature individual.
BB: When you and Lee worked out together, what did you two focus on?
RHEE: Most of the time we focused on kicks, but we also practiced punching once in a while. Bruce really loved sushi, so every time he stayed at my house, my wife fixed him a huge plate of sushi, and we could eat and train like mad until four or five o'clock in the morning.
BB: What was the most significant thing you learned from training with Bruce Lee, and vice versa?
RHEE: I think the most important thing I learned form Bruce was his hand techniques, his "non-telegraphic" punch. the most important thing I taught Bruce was probably my side kick. This is, in fact, a very difficult kick until you really know the finer mechanics of executing the kick. We really learned valuable things from each other.
BB: Some of Lee's old acquaintances have suggested that, at one point after training with some of his wing chun kung fu seniors during a trip to Hong Kong, he seriously considered giving up martial arts because he felt he had lost some of his speed and skill.
RHEE: I really can't see him ever thinking about quitting the martial arts, no matter what happened when he met with his old teachers or seniors. He had a martial arts soul; the martial arts was his life.
BB: How fast were Lee's techniques?
RHEE: Bruce was very fast, but more important was his excellent timing, his deceptiveness. Good timing is essential. Muhammad Ali was a good fighter, not because of his speed, but because of his timing. I really felt that Bruce valued good timing more than just speed.
BB: Did you have any inkling that Lee would achieve the level of success he did?
RHEE: I always knew Bruce would become a movie and martial arts superstar because he was a very charismatic person with a great sense of humor, he was very articulate, and he was a very determined man. He was determined to become a superstar. I was actual ly sitting next to him when he wrote his "My Definite Chief Aim" in January, 1969 (in which Lee predicted he would become the first Oriental superstar in the United States). At that time, I really didn't question whether he would manage to achieve his aim or not, I just knew that, with his quality, talent, determination and commitment in martial arts, things would happen. I have never ever seen anybody that committed to martial arts. Whenever I visited him, he was always involved with something new - stretching, lifting weights and so on. He didn't even stop when we were talking.
BB: What are the biggest misconceptions people have about Lee?
RHEE: Some people thought Bruce wasn't particularly friendly, but he was, especially when he liked somebody. Then he would give out his heart. If Bruce liked you, he would do anything for you within his power.
BB: What do you think of Lee's movies?
RHEE: They are the greatest! They are really electrifying. I was invited to the grand opening of Enter the Dragon, and the movie was out of this world.
BB: How do you feel about the martial arts movies in general?
RHEE: I think some are good and some are not so good. But, overall, these movies - good or bad - have promoted the martial arts industry and they have created an awareness of the martial arts. I'm happy to see how far martial arts have come up in our society. The name taekwondo is no a household word, not only in America, but around the world. All in all, I feel that martial arts movies have dont a good job of publicizing the arts.
BB: There are those who have labeled Lee a "celluloid fighter," claiming he couldn't fight for real. What is your opinion?
RHEE: I too have heard people who think Bruce wasn't a real fighter, but he really was. When he was in high school in Hong Kong, he fought in a Golden Gloves boxing tournament and knocked out the reigning champion after only a few weeks of training. Bruce was really a good street fighter, and I personally have never seen anybody, pound for pound, as strong as Bruce Lee. Now, when he is no long with us, it's pretty natural that there are some people who try to discredit Bruce. This does not change the actual facts. I know Bruce was a very good fighter.
BB: What ideas to Lee did you see that perhaps the public never did?
RHEE: My friendship with Bruce was very entertaining. Whenever he was around, he always made you laugh. But Bruce was also a very deep person who loved his wife and children very much. He was a good father and a good husband.
BB: Do you remember any of the jokes or pranks Lee played on people?
RHEE: Yes. I recall him telling a guy who talked a lot that he would get his tongue sunburned if he kept asking so much. Another joke Bruce told went as follows: A Japanese emperor wanted to hire a bodyguard with swordfighting skills. The first applicant w as a Japanese samurai, and when asked what he could do, the samurai opened a matchbox and a fly flew out. The samurai drew his sword and cut the fly in half. The emperor was very impressed and called the next applicant, who repeated the trick, only he cu t into four pieces, impressing the emperor even more. The third applicant was a Jewish samurai. He too opened a matchbox and a fly flew out. The Jewish samurai drew his sword, but nothing happened. "Well?" the emperor asked impatiently. "Your majesty," the Jewish samurai replied, "if you closely examine the fly, you will find that it has been circumcised!"
BB: When was your final conversation with Lee, and did you notice anything different or unusual about him?
RHEE: Bruce died on July 20, 1973, and I last saw him in Hong Kong on July 6th. He saw me at the airport after my work on the movie [When Taekwondo Strikes] there. Then, 24 hours prior to his death, Bruce called me to tell me that the movie was all edited and finished. The next day, I heard of his death on the radio. I called [his wife] Linda immediately and she confirmed the sad news. I thinking I was one of the last American people with whom Bruce spoke before he died. I never got the feeling that something was wrong with Bruce when we last met. He looked good, and when we spoke on the phone, he sounded like a very happy man.
BB: Lee reportedly collapsed several times in the year before his death. Did he discuss any of these incidents with you?
RHEE: No, he never mentioned any of these collapses. But he was very concerned when he came to Los Angeles for a physical checkup [that year]. He was so proud of the results. He told me that doctors told him he had the body of an 18-year-old. The test results made him very relieved, and when I heard the news of his death on the radio, I just couldn't believe it. I was shocked, and the loss to the whole world was terrible.
BB: Did Lee reveal to you any of his plans for the future before he died?
RHEE: He always wanted to become the greatest Asian star in the world, to be the number-one movie star. That was really his chief aim, and he used his martial arts to achieve his goal.
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Postby djlang_18 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:16 pm

Wow, Kensai, thank you for that insightful bit of wisdom. Fortunately, I do realize that it was a movie. I was simply commenting on their performances.
Way to pick out the most UNRELATED thing I said and reply sarcastically toward it. Did you pick up that move from a Kindergartner?
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Postby Kensei » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:57 am

djlang_18 wrote:Wow, Kensai, thank you for that insightful bit of wisdom. Fortunately, I do realize that it was a movie. I was simply commenting on their performances.
Way to pick out the most UNRELATED thing I said and reply sarcastically toward it. Did you pick up that move from a Kindergartner?


Wow, Derek....I was trying to keep this one above the belt kiddo! Trying to keep things nice and chat back and forth about our opposing views...I see now I am not going to be able to do that. If you can not do more than just post other peoples ideas in HUGE and DULL ass posts and make personal attacks then perhaps you should just leave this at we agree to dissagree and move along to a post that does not force you to crawl and scrape to the lowest form of argument, the personal attack!

I have trained with several students of Lee's and third generation guys in Washington state when I lived out that way, they were very nice people with some very unoriginal training ideas culled from Lees training with other styles. Before you go attacking me personally and showing your own charactor perhaps you should ask a few questions of those you are attacking. I never once said that Lee was not brilliant in his martial arts, what I do question is others making him some kind of God when they only hear facts filtered threw magazines, books, movies and wanna be Lee students.

I am not going to carry on a conversation very long if you dont learn how to communicate with out attacking others. It shows two things....one that you have nothing to work with when it comes to defending your side of the conversations...which is fine..."because I think so" works with me! and two that you end up getting flustered when chatting with someone that has an opposing view and make personal attacks....ergo showing that you are not properly equiped to keep up your side of the chat....again, fine by me.

have a great holiday season by the way!

come back when you have more than personal attacks to throw out!!! :cry:
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Postby djlang_18 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:14 pm

You are kidding right???? Bruce and Chuck did not take each other on in the movie...IT WAS A MOVIE, it was set up...you know like...ACTING! I loved bruce lee movies and have all his movies, heck I was probably watching them before some of you were born, but I am not some kid or guy thinking that any of what Lee did was real! It was coreographed and set up! If Chuck had gotten into a fight with Lee one of them would be turffed, and it would have been Chuck, he was basically starting out in movies and that would have ended that little gig! Get over it people they did not really fight, if you think that was real then why is Chuck still making movies, HE DIED at the end of that movie! But only as an actor! geez!

Before this little piece I was more than willing to display nothing but civility and consideration in this debate, as you did I, however, you insulted my intelligence and ability to understand common sense. However, I will disregard that last post of pure hypocrisy and offer you, in turn, a suggestion: in an internet discussion forum, it would be wise not to take such an extremist view on a topic such as this. To say Bruce wasn’t a fighter at ALL, well, what kind of a reply did you expect? Anyone that knows me, knows I am a very kind, empathetic and patient person. Patient enough to excuse your flagrant slandering of my character, and continue to discuss this matter in a gentlemanly fashion—if you comply to do the same.
I never once said that Lee was not brilliant in his martial arts,

Nor did I ever say otherwise:
Oh, now that i've had a quick look at the discussion, let me say, specifically to Kensai that, though i admire your admittance to the fact that Bruce was an intelligent person, and an inspiring, excellent instructor (some would go so far to even disagree with such)
...
...what I do question is others making him some kind of God when they only hear facts filtered threw magazines, books, movies and wanna be Lee students.

I am a Born-Again child of God, Saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. How dare you—HOW DARE YOU—EVER suggest that I would view Bruce Lee as anything more than a person? I draw my inspiration in martial arts from him, he is an idol to me in many respects. But if it ever came down to picking between God or Bruce Lee, then I’d say “Bye-bye, Bruce” in a heartbeat. How dare you.

The question of whether or not Bruce was the Best, the Worst or somewhere in between has long since been in debate. Had this post have been anything as such, I would never had bothered to type a letter in response. When you, however, claim that Bruce was not a fighter AT ALL, I had no choice. You claim that by saying Bruce was the Best fighter is in some way disrespectful, I’d say only recognizing him as smart, innovative, and a good teacher, would be more a slap in the face. I, in fact, am not interested in trying to prove to you that he was the Best. But he was a fighter nonetheless.
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Postby Kensei » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:35 pm

Okay, I am going to be about as civil as I can to you at this point and apologize for seeming anything but that. let me just make a few comments on your rather interesting response!

djlang_18 wrote:
You are kidding right???? Bruce and Chuck did not take each other on in the movie...IT WAS A MOVIE, it was set up...you know like...ACTING! I loved Bruce lee movies and have all his movies, heck I was probably watching them before some of you were born, but I am not some kid or guy thinking that any of what Lee did was real! It was choreographed and set up! If Chuck had gotten into a fight with Lee one of them would be turffed, and it would have been Chuck, he was basically starting out in movies and that would have ended that little gig! Get over it people they did not really fight, if you think that was real then why is Chuck still making movies, HE DIED at the end of that movie! But only as an actor! geez!


Before this little piece I was more than willing to display nothing but civility and consideration in this debate, as you did I, however, you insulted my intelligence and ability to understand common sense. However, I will disregard that last post of pure hypocrisy and offer you, in turn, a suggestion: in an internet discussion forum, it would be wise not to take such an extremist view on a topic such as this. To say Bruce wasn’t a fighter at ALL, well, what kind of a reply did you expect? Anyone that knows me, knows I am a very kind, empathetic and patient person. Patient enough to excuse your flagrant slandering of my character, and continue to discuss this matter in a gentlemanly fashion—if you comply to do the same.


No you were not, lets get this straight, I did not attack your character in the above statement, might want to RE READ that one Derek! Were in that statement do I say ANYTHING about you at all? I stated I was more than likely watching them before you are born, perhaps my thinking you were younger than I am, but not questioning your charactor...then I explain that I am not some guy that thought what he did was real in any way IN THE MOVIES! I did not say you had poor character in any way shape or form...I am starting to think that perhaps you misread something and got offended! :wink:

djlang_18 wrote:
I never once said that Lee was not brilliant in his martial arts,

Nor did I ever say otherwise:
Oh, now that I've had a quick look at the discussion, let me say, specifically to Kensai that, though i admire your admittance to the fact that Bruce was an intelligent person, and an inspiring, excellent instructor (some would go so far to even disagree with such)

...
...what I do question is others making him some kind of God when they only hear facts filtered threw magazines, books, movies and wanna be Lee students.


Holly chrimany, we actually agree on something :shock: ....mark it in your calendar!!! :lol: I think you are mistaking my not liking people making more of Bruce Lee as me not liking him! Or being very upset about it. On a day to day basis I could care less. He is also the reason that I got into the martial arts! I just dont like it when myth and stories become "history"! :cry:


djlang_18 wrote:I am a Born-Again child of God, Saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. How dare you—HOW DARE YOU—EVER suggest that I would view Bruce Lee as anything more than a person? I draw my inspiration in martial arts from him, he is an idol to me in many respects. But if it ever came down to picking between God or Bruce Lee, then I’d say “Bye-bye, Bruce” in a heartbeat. How dare you.


Oh, get over yourself, I did not attack you or your personal beliefs, interesting thing...you never asked about my beliefs before accusing me of attacking you? :!: I did not DARE to do anything, I made use of a common phrase to illustrate the common action of making someone out to be something that they are not and you got all upset because I attacked your religion! When? :shock: Where? :shock: I could do the same to you right this second, but I wont!

By the way....I am a ordained minister!

I was rather upset when I first read this, but now I just realize that you took a comment the wrong way! I suggest toning it down, for a new guy you sure are excitable! :wink:

djlang_18 wrote:The question of whether or not Bruce was the Best, the Worst or somewhere in between has long since been in debate. Had this post have been anything as such, I would never had bothered to type a letter in response. When you, however, claim that Bruce was not a fighter AT ALL, I had no choice. You claim that by saying Bruce was the Best fighter is in some way disrespectful, I’d say only recognizing him as smart, innovative, and a good teacher, would be more a slap in the face. I, in fact, am not interested in trying to prove to you that he was the Best. But he was a fighter nonetheless.


It comes down to definition of a fighter! I think Lee was a smart instructor, and innovator and a hell of a researcher. But do I believe he was a fighter, no! I think he sparred with people and made them realize he could spar/fight...but he was not a fighter in the sense that Norris and Lewis were fighters, who trained and go in and fought with other guys for titles and went full out with intent on hitting the other guy hard.....and getting hit. I once was told a story by one of his friends and students. This guy told me that when they sparred Bruce would promise to not hit them 100% if they promised to not hit him 100% because at a 100% he would kill the guy and at 100% they might hurt Lee and Lee knew he did not want to get hurt.

I agree that Lee was good, and he was smart and he was a martial artist, but he was not the characters he portrayed in movies and he was not a prize fighter, a street fighter or any kind of "real" fighter by my definition! Better??
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Postby FEDORisGOD » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:06 pm

Bruce Lee supposedly was able to kick a 250lbs Heavy Bag something like 8 feet in the air. Imagine what he would do to a human who is 155lbs.

Im not saying hed dominate MMA, but I strongly believe that if he was alive today and training Boxing, BJJ, Wrestling on a parallell his skills would be remarkable.

No one had his speed, desire to train or mental stimuli.

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Postby Kensei » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:37 pm

FEDORisGOD wrote:Bruce Lee supposedly was able to kick a 250lbs Heavy Bag something like 8 feet in the air. Imagine what he would do to a human who is 155lbs.

Im not saying hed dominate MMA, but I strongly believe that if he was alive today and training Boxing, BJJ, Wrestling on a parallell his skills would be remarkable.

No one had his speed, desire to train or mental stimuli.

Be water my friend.


I have seen videos of him doing this, the bag looked crazy heavy and he nailed it with a side kick and it flew! Granted not as easy to do a jump in side kick to a guy that would move! But damn impressive!
I also ready a story about his one inch punch sending a guy across a full length of a pool...this one is not true, but the punch did knock the foot ball player into the pool!

Lee had alot going for him, he was one of the most conditioned guys I have ever seen. I do know of a few second hand stories that dont paint him to well in the fight area, and he had a bad temper!
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Postby djlang_18 » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:10 pm

Kensai, maybe this whole thing has been a big misunderstanding on both our parts, and for my part, I apologize. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Bruce was, indeed, not a fighter. I concur, that he was not a fighter in the sense of the word, as you defined.

Let me just ask one more question for clarificational purposes: Do you think that HAD Bruce been a fighter, he would've been, if not the best, at least in the top twenty (ever recorded)?
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