MMA-Forum.com

[Breman]

I'm a starting BJJ student, and want to start to add muay thai after the new year. Are there any things I can do at home to condition my shins and elbows, so I'm better prepared when I do start?

[stevebags]

I used a rolling pin or a milk bottle just rolling it up & down and gently tapping it, it was recommended to me by a good Thai boxer. However it hurts like F*** at first.

[Gurre]

yeah... that's good

[Ste Bell]

No, it's actually really bad for you... causes more nerve damage than kicking solid objects. You're best conditioning your shins naturally... I'll try and find the study that 'proves' you shouldn't use a rolling pin... it was comparing Thai fighters (in Thailand) who used rolling pins (or the likes) against those who kicked Banana trees... 60% more nerve damage/loss in the rolling pins.

But eh, it's your choice, not mine... I'd just stray away from it.

[Gurre]

You still lose nerves however you do. More or less depends on how hard you plan to kick on the blocks. Ask Ramon Dekkers.

[Ste Bell]

This is a much debated topic in martial arts... shin conditioning that is.

If you condition your shins gradually (through hitting the heavy bag) there is no great long term damage, rolling a pin up and down your shins desensitizes the nerves and leads to greater long term damage than hitting an object less dense than bone for high reps. If I were to be arguing the case of going out and kicking a wall, then I could fully see your point... but seen as though I'm not, I'm afraid I'll have to continue disagreeing with the advice so far in this thread.

[Gurre]

Yeah, but what's wrong with killing off nerves in your leg anyway? What's the damage? Are you unable to walk later? Will your leg rott and fall off? Will you have to amputate it?

[stevebags]

The guy who advised me to use a rolling pin said that the purpose of it was to deaden the nerves. He swears by it, he has no feelings in his nerves near his shin. However he can kick has hard as he wants and blocks equally as hard. I cant see a problem with having no feelings near the shin

[Gurre]

me neither...

[Ste Bell]

Are you serious? Honestly - you don't see any problems with killing the nerves in your legs?

... I really am going to go no further in this. The fact that you don't see any problems with, just, well... confuses me.

Roll your shins, kill your nerves - while you're at it, break your leg and get one of those nice metal plates put in across your shin, that way when you kick, it truely will be as hard as nails.

[Gurre]

seriously dude, what are the consequences of it? And if you don't like it, well... we aren't forcing YOU to do it are we?

And what you are saying is a load of bull so far. Why is it that harmfull, tell me please.

[Ste Bell]

What are the consequences? You have dead nerves in your legs. We have nerves for a reason... if they were of no use they would have died out over the course of evolution.

I don't see how necessary it is for you to condition your shins anyhow... sure, it hurts - but you're in the middle of a fight for christs sake, you're going to get kicked, punched and knee'd... if you can't take a little pain then perhaps martial arts aren't for you. Hitting the heavy bag will condition your shins to a level that is sufficient, temporarily killing the nerves in your legs (Yes, they do return after you stop training) is just an all round bad thing in my opinion... nerves (that detect pain) are the bodies way of telling you it's had enough.

You're not forcing me to do it, no, but this is a discussion board - I haven't at any point even suggested that you're trying to make me do it - so perhaps you should take a look back over the thread and then get back to me with something relevant to say.

Your attitude is awful - I disagree with your opinion so I'm full of 'bull' - honestly, that's pathetic. Seriously pathetic.

But, to show you that I'm not the only person with the opinion that it is harmful...

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthrea ... nditioning

I tried to respect your opinion, but you are just out right ignorant... I take it this is your site, with the fact that the webmaster was online just a matter of seconds before this was posted... so I can only hope that everything isn't as 'tunnel visioned' on here... you might own a website on MMA, but that by no means concludes that you know everything there is to know about martial arts.

Ban me for all I care.. I don't think I want to be part of such a closed minded community. Say what you want, regardless of me being full of 'bull' - you have yet to give any POSITIVES of killing the nerves in your shin.

[Gurre]

The positives are clear, you aren't in pain for weeks after a fight. Which reducec the recovery time. Also you can kick harder, and through blocks.

Oh, and how can nerves temporarily die from hitting a heavy bag, and then come back. And not come back from a rolling pin?

You think my attitude is bad because I question what you say. You think you know all there is to know, but we see on this matter differantly. You say "oooh it's very bad for you" but yet you don't sya why and what the consequences are. You hardly know what you are talking about. And yes, this is my site.

Anyway, I don't know everything there is to know about MMA, or martial arts for that matter. But I do know that I don't like people who think they know what's best for me and play mommy all day long.

Just because you train muay thai doesn't mean you know what it's all about. Nor do you know how I fight, or why. So what makes you think that you can tell me what's best for me?

[Ste Bell]

Take a look at what you just said, rewind to my posts above and you'll realise you're basically saying what I said - we see differently on the matter. If you had of only taken your 'own' advice when I said it, we'd never have had this discussion elevate to a negative level.

Ok, I came across like I was dictating facts in my first post; but I'm pretty sure it was easy to decyther it was my opinion... I provided the other side of the debate, which I of course agree with - if you give me a study, or any form of scientific fact that rolling your shins is the best way to go and there are no side effects, then I will quite gladly hold my hand up and admit that I am wrong, but for as far as I see it... there is no real answer.

You've turned this into something that it quite clearly isn't - no one is telling anyone to do anything - I'm not being forced into rolling my shins (like you suggested I thought), nor am I trying to convince you to stop rolling them... people have free will and different preferences... rolling your shins is fine by you, you don't think there are any problems with it, I on the other hand don't like the idea of killing the nerves in my legs... the discussion is quite simply that - I never brought any negativity into the thread, it was in fact you who did it.

And for the record, I didn't mean that nerves recover from hitting the heavy bag and not rolling - I meant in general, if you desensitize your nerves (by either method) they do eventually gain some feeling back, however they gain less feeling back after rolling... I'll try and get hold of the study for you, but I can't promise you anything.

I don't think your attitude is bad because you question what I say; I prefer it when someone offers the other side of a debate - I think your attitude is bad based on the way you carry yourself on these boards "you don't agree with me so you're full of bull" seriously, how old are you? 11? Grow up. I might not agree with you, but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

Also, not being is pain doesn't necessarily reduce recovery time... damage is damage, feeling the pain of an injury is irrelevant - a chipped shin, for example, doesn't simply shake off just because you don't feel the pain... so instead of presenting 'facts' from your point of view, why don't you consider all areas of what you're saying... I mean, you wouldn't want me to think you're 'full of bull', would you?

The disadvantages are also quite clear... you have longer lasting nerve damage for the rest of your life; not your career, your entire life... nerves are the bodies form of communication... in the case of the skin, the nerves are free ended in a deep layer of the skin called the dermis; they pick up any pain or other senses from the environment and send these to the brain (via other nerves), which in turn reacts to the stimuli in an appropriate manner. if your nerves are damaged, you may A) not pick up an aversive stimuli such as fire, which as you can imagine can only be bad... imagine being in bed and your house catchign fire, but you don't realise until after it passes your shins... you're already basically dead - a 'weird' example, I'll give you, but none the less, possible, heh. Or B) your nerves pick up a stimuli a little too late... again, heat or even intense coldness... if you don't react accordingly it can have negative side effects. It seems that you're just looking at it from a career stand still, I agree that having no nerves in your shin would benefit you in regards to fighting... but for general life, it's terrible.

I don't know everything there is to know about Muay Thai, nor do I think I ever will... I'm 18 and been into martial arts for only 2 years - so I'd be the first to admit that I don't know everything, nor am I even close to know everything about martial arts. But I haven't ever said I did, nor have I put myself across as doing so on these boards - at the end of the day, this is a message board, why would I try to make myself look great online to people I've never met, and more than likely never will meet.

Again, before you jump on here and make assumptions about what I think; and make up things that I am apparently doing (Playing Mommy... again, are you 11?) take a look at the entire thread. I haven't told you not to do it, I'm not saying that it's the worst thing in the world you could possibly do... merely offering another standstill on the subject.

[Gurre]

Right, you didn't come off as offering anthough point of you, but as you say dictating. We agree to disagree. For sure, if the axons don't react to outer stimuli isn't good. But let's remember, you have axons in the feet as well. You also have axons in the calfs. That's why I think the damage will be minimal, and will be able to live with.

To put it bluntly, I think it's the price to pay, if you want to be in the top. You obviously don't.