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moving from Karate...

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moving from Karate...

Postby simodasink » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:41 am

Im quite young but have alot of experience fighting in karate but I am intrested in furthering my fighting styles but Im not sure were I should start. Some people suggest kickboxing, others say moving to wrestling would suit my small but powerful frame. Any thoughts?
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Postby JimmysEgo » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:12 am

you HAVE to have some ground skills to be "well rounded" these days. if you took karate, muay thai, tae kwon do, aikido, kung fu, blah blah blah, you would be a bad ass, but someone will get you on the ground and you have nothing.
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Postby Kensei » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:28 am

I agree with Jimmy, I am a Karate instructor with...well four decades of training...now the boys are figuring out my age..darn it.

I also have my black belt in Judo and have done Sombo and it does help. I would pick a fundamental grappling art like Judo or Wrestling if you are still young. If you like these and get good at one then you can add submission wrestling or BJJ to the training a bit later.

But, dont quite Karate, stand up striking is very important as well.
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Postby minotaurman » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:17 pm

Kensei wrote:I agree with Jimmy, I am a Karate instructor with...well four decades of training...now the boys are figuring out my age..darn it.

I also have my black belt in Judo and have done Sombo and it does help. I would pick a fundamental grappling art like Judo or Wrestling if you are still young. If you like these and get good at one then you can add submission wrestling or BJJ to the training a bit later.

But, dont quite Karate, stand up striking is very important as well.


I respect the work you have put into your art however, i disagree. I have trained with shotokan karate pratitioners, (I have a brown belt), boxers and Muay Thai practioners, (two years) and I can tell you for a fact the boxer and muay thai guys hit much, much harder. Perhaps in the beginning karate was a powerful art, however, due to continuous lawsuits and unofficial trainers, the american style of the art has become so watered down and the rules so obscene that there isn't much left. For example, in many karate tournaments, fighters were not allowed to hit below the belt or above the collar. This eliminates 90% of the effectice strikes. One of muay thai's specialties are to kick your opponents legs out from under them, totally illegal in karate.
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Postby Kensei » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:31 am

minotaurman wrote:
Kensei wrote:I agree with Jimmy, I am a Karate instructor with...well four decades of training...now the boys are figuring out my age..darn it.

I also have my black belt in Judo and have done Sombo and it does help. I would pick a fundamental grappling art like Judo or Wrestling if you are still young. If you like these and get good at one then you can add submission wrestling or BJJ to the training a bit later.

But, dont quite Karate, stand up striking is very important as well.


I respect the work you have put into your art however, i disagree. I have trained with shotokan karate pratitioners, (I have a brown belt), boxers and Muay Thai practioners, (two years) and I can tell you for a fact the boxer and muay thai guys hit much, much harder. Perhaps in the beginning karate was a powerful art, however, due to continuous lawsuits and unofficial trainers, the american style of the art has become so watered down and the rules so obscene that there isn't much left. For example, in many karate tournaments, fighters were not allowed to hit below the belt or above the collar. This eliminates 90% of the effectice strikes. One of muay thai's specialties are to kick your opponents legs out from under them, totally illegal in karate.


I think your issue is WRONG INSTRUCTORS not that the art let you down. We do hard nosed Karate in my dojo and the only two targets left off the Okay to hit list is the groin and the throat. Oh, and you can not "three stuges" the eyes. Other than that we use no pad training and light contact. On occasion we do contact dojo sparring to the face and the rest of the body as well. I have KOd a few of the youth with reverse round house to the back of the head and a few with a good shot to the face. if you go to a YMCA style instructor or even a commercial instructor you will get the watery instruction. But if you do find a good instructor it is a great base style to work from. Dont forget about the few MMA guys that started off Shotokan and at least one that I can think of that is still JKA style Shotokan with some Judo and subs. Ryoto Machida is a son of a JKA instructor that does hard nose training. Dude, you just found the wrong clubs.
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Postby corvo » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:09 pm

Thanks, Kensei

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Postby simodasink » Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:16 pm

Thanks for all the opinions. You guys have confirmed what I thought. Im going to look into Jujitsu or wrestling to get a well rounded ground game. Karate has tought me alot and Im from a karate background family wise and have trained and sompeted in a number of styles and in mixed competition but I think you can't go wrong with cross-training. May also look into kickboxing to improve power but no matter what gona keep karate, itss tought me alot. Thanks guys!
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Postby Minatour » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:50 am

Karate is okay for stand up, but if you really want to be a good striker, you need to train in Kickboxing, boxing, Muay thai etc. Karate will not get you there on its own because most of the moves dont work, but they give you some standup skill still. People should move forward from traditional martial arts. The only arts that are useful are Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Sambo, BJJ, Krav Maga, Submission wrestling, Luta livre etc. Forget traditional martial arts they will allways hold you back.
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Postby Kensei » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:51 pm

LMAO, you should say people who want to do sports and want quick gains should switch from traditional Karate to a sport striking style. I would venture to say that the goals are very much different and in order to be a good fighter with Karate in a sport environement...kind of like square peg round hole time.

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Postby malaclypse » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:29 am

Each striking art has its advantages.

There are techniques in Karate that Muay Thay doesn't have, especially related to self defense.

There are combo's that are inefficient in a match up against Muay Thai fighters because you would be wearing gants. which traditionally you wouldn't wear in Kumite's.

There are always pro's and con's. But if you have trained for such a long time, why let go of Karate?

Glaube Feitosa does great against Muay Thay fighters... so why shouldn't you?


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Postby ablinkin » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:13 am

Kensei,
I took TKD from one of the "watered down" schools and as a result ended up with 2 plates and 14 screws holding my left arm together! As you said though it is not the art that let me down it was my teacher and my lack of research. I know a few guys that have taken TKD and they are some really tough guys, I would not want to scrap with. It sounds as though you seek to teach Karate the way it was intended.....
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Postby Kensei » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:55 pm

ablinkin wrote:Kensei,
I took TKD from one of the "watered down" schools and as a result ended up with 2 plates and 14 screws holding my left arm together! As you said though it is not the art that let me down it was my teacher and my lack of research. I know a few guys that have taken TKD and they are some really tough guys, I would not want to scrap with. It sounds as though you seek to teach Karate the way it was intended.....


My training is very old fasioned. we dont screw about saying we are tough and dancing with each other. we bang out classes and our club is known as one of the more traditional clubs in the city. The problem with the water down clubs is of course the injuries. Dont give up on training man, just find a better instructor.
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Postby ablinkin » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:50 am

Kensei, I finally found a more traditional instructor. He teaches a blend of a couple different styles of Kung Fu. Sifu's classes sound a lot like yours, very much to the point, we dont much care how pretty we look as long as we dont get our a$$ handed to us in a fight :)thats not to say our form work is not pretty, we just concentrate less on that and more on functionality. Its to bad your class is in Canada ( I assume from your location) I would love to see what real Karate looks like!
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Postby Kensei » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:37 am

ablinkin wrote:Kensei, I finally found a more traditional instructor. He teaches a blend of a couple different styles of Kung Fu. Sifu's classes sound a lot like yours, very much to the point, we dont much care how pretty we look as long as we dont get our a$$ handed to us in a fight :)thats not to say our form work is not pretty, we just concentrate less on that and more on functionality. Its to bad your class is in Canada ( I assume from your location) I would love to see what real Karate looks like!


Man, anyone who comes to Winnipeg Manitoba is welcome to come and train. just drop me a line. I would have to say that "real Karate" can be found in a lot of places. But "McDojo" crap is also out thier. Buyer be wair and all that stuff.
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Postby ablinkin » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:23 am

If I ever have the opportunity to come I surely will! Thanks for the invite!!
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