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Muay Thai vs Kung Fu vs ..what most people tend to forget...

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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:12 am

I could not agree more on some points. Style vs. Style arguements should be more like debates. Because I personally believe that practitioners from differing styles should talk and compare. They may learn something from each other. Believe it or not, but some styles are better adapted to certain situations, and if you do not believe that then you are too closed minded.
Not to cross train cripples the martial arts, without it you can become a mechanic, but never an artist.
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Postby Kensei » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:20 am

Oh, No I completely agree with that. I train in Karate and Judo to work with two aspects of combat...but I know that while both have strong points...they both have weak points. To truely train and be a well rounded fighter...you would need to work with many different styles. I agree that all styles have situations that they just are not strong in.
It is the opposite, you need to work in several styles to be good at all situations...and even then you probably will have weak spots that one can find.
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Postby stevebags » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:13 pm

agreed
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."

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Postby malaclypse » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:56 pm

Kensei,

I think we think a like.

kensei wrote:First off Conversation does not serve "no purpose" with out conversation and sharring ideas no body evolves.


It was a topic on self defense. Some people always immediately go to style when it's about self defense. I think it is nonsense.. It's what you do with your talents, not the talents itself which decide the outcome of a fight.

kensei wrote:I do not want to talk about your "penis" .


My point is that style is not THAT important. In a fight, STYLE is like your PENIS SIZE... IT DOES NOT HELP YOU AT ALL. It boosts your ego not your ability to survive. Streetfighters don't care about rules. So it's better to be ready to walk the extra mile if you get into a streetfight than to be cocky and look down on other styles. That is IF and WHEN you get into a fight, because I still think it is a lot better to walk away if you can walk away.

As I wrote :

IT IS NOT ABOUT "look how good I am at what I do, my penis is longer and can take more kicks than yours, my balls are iron balls" IT IS ABOUT A PROPER MINDSET ...
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Postby Kensei » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:12 pm

Again, sorry about the iron prosthetic thingy...but you are correct, we see things the same way. Training and conditioning to specific events will help more than just stating your style. Skills and knowning how to use them outweigh the whole style thing.

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Postby tang-ao » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:00 am

Does this simply come down to the question of whether it the art or the fighter that makes the difference?
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Postby Kensei » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:08 am

that question is old and probably something that the Gym/Dojo teachers are using to get students. The answer is it is what the student does with the teaching!
If you take Judo/Sombo and enter a MMA tournament you have a grapplers chance at winning. If you Take Thai or Boxing, then you have a strikers chance. If you take a style that is more MMA or Mixed then you have a more diverse tool kit to work with...but focusing on one aspect of the game means you will be one dimensional.

So the answer is it is not the art, but what the student does with the skills he learns that will give more potential for a possitive result.

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Postby High kick = Nap time » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:03 pm

I had never heard of Krav Maga till this, after reading up on it I have to say it sounds like a slighty more brutal form of Kenpo. Of course it's very different, I just mean the brutality of it. Using any and all methods to subdue your opponent. Eye gouges, groin shots, foreign objects, head buts. All those are taught in Kenpo.

I've come to find out they're taught in Krav Maga as well. This being said, I like that idea. When you learn a fighting style the #1 reason most people learn it is for self defense. In a street fight there are no rules. For all you know you could be fighting for your life. And in that situation. . . Live. . .by any means necessary.
...Ill crack your fucking head wide open in front of everybody. And just about the time when I'm coming out of jail...hOpefully...you'll be coming out of your coma. And guess what, Ill split your fucking head open again.
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Postby Kensei » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:06 pm

I would say one of the reasons that people take up martial arts/fighting styles is for self defense. as an instructor I find most joing up for fitness, confidence, self defense and just do do something or compete. Their are as many reasons as I have people in my club...and I have a fair size club. my favorite is when i asked a kid why he joined and he said "because my dad pays for me to go"! got to love it.
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:06 pm

That's the only reason I never started when I was a wee lad; because I could not afford it. If my mother could have paid for it I would have went. I take MA for a few reasons and one of them being self-defense.
Not to cross train cripples the martial arts, without it you can become a mechanic, but never an artist.
- E. Cates

Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts.
- Dan Gable
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Postby malaclypse » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:28 pm

The reason why I started with Martial Arts: I had a minority complex, always thinking that others where better than me.
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Postby dahmuno » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:53 am

i dont mean to bust anyones bubble but kung fu was ranked the top at self defense on the streets. disabling someones eyes, throat, knees, balance, etc. is gonna gain the upper hand in a street fight. the hand strikes in kung fu are plentiful. the whipping motion of the attacks creates faster strikes, compared to robotic movements of other MA. and when you see final fu on mtv, dont think that resembles real traditional kung fu. please dont lmao..... real kung fu is brutal, sickening to watch, and sometimes gory. the beautiful side of kung fu is the wushu forms and things. these shouldnt be confused with kung fu because they have a completely different focus. and please dont think TKD is gonna hold up in a street fight, thats just freindly advice. its a show style period. and btw you cant get a real black sash in kung fu in 1 year, its more like 16 or more years. Thats something i noticed about the new MMA scene, no one has really seen any real kung fu. thats just the truth for real. and about the eight limbs (feet,knees,elbows,hands) kung fu definately has that. its just not "robot style fighting" like some of this stuff out here.
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Postby choppertoo » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:39 am

In real martial arts there are no belts ... just master and students ... belts and gradings are purely a western addition .... so realistically there is no such thing as a black belt. In any martial art you will never have finished learning ... there is always more you can learn and add to. In fact all I say is be open minded ... yes gain mastery in one art ... but don't be afraid to learn from over styles ... my sifu studies both Tae Kwon Do, Hung Ga Kung Fu and Phillipine Escrima ... though i study primarily Kung Fu ... we learn elements from other martial arts - to become better at self-defense. At the end of the day it is about finding your own personal style - not a constant argument about my style is better than your style!
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:59 am

choppertoo wrote:In real martial arts there are no belts ... just master and students ... belts and gradings are purely a western addition .... so realistically there is no such thing as a black belt. In any martial art you will never have finished learning ... there is always more you can learn and add to. In fact all I say is be open minded ... yes gain mastery in one art ... but don't be afraid to learn from over styles ... my sifu studies both Tae Kwon Do, Hung Ga Kung Fu and Phillipine Escrima ... though i study primarily Kung Fu ... we learn elements from other martial arts - to become better at self-defense. At the end of the day it is about finding your own personal style - not a constant argument about my style is better than your style!


Actually belt rankings are not a western addition. Modern day belt rankings were implemented by the inventor of Judo, Jigoro Kano. Before he did this system there was no kyu and dan rankings. Jigor Kano at first only used white and black belts, but eventually starting using more colors. So to say belt rankings are a western addition would be wrong. Personally I think the belt ranking system has both a positive and negative effect. But that's just me.

Positive:
1.Makes a student strive for the next rank
2.Helps to establish a certain order in the dojo
3.Let's the more experienced students know which students are the lesser experienced
4.In younger practitioners it helps promote respsect

Negative:
1.A student can become snotty because they are higher rank than another student.
2.Some dojos just give them away left and right and fill their students with a false since of confidence and/or pride.
3.Some people think once they have that fabled BB they are invincible.

That's just some points for both having and not having.
Not to cross train cripples the martial arts, without it you can become a mechanic, but never an artist.
- E. Cates

Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts.
- Dan Gable
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Postby Kensei » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:24 am

[quote="dahmuno"]i dont mean to bust anyones bubble but kung fu was ranked the top at self defense on the streets. quote]

By Kung fu guys! LMAO. :lol: I have seen way to many posts like this that shows that the guy writing it is so far off base and...well I will be polite...Resting their heads half way up thier...never mind.

Kung Fu and every other style is subject to the same rules of street fighting...it is the guy and his luck that can make the training work. Take any ten fighters from your Kwoon and put them in a street fight with any ten guys and I say maybe 4-6 guys do well enough to win and even they get hurt. any one saying a style is the best is dilusional and living in a dream world. No one style is going to make you a fighting machine if you dont have it in you already. Hell I have seen MA champs get beat down in a bar by a street fighter and I have seen street fighters get beat down my Martial artists.

Only a true Kung fool master would believe that a style is going to determin the out come of a fight.

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