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Royce Gracie

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Postby Kensei » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:56 am

Master-Doug wrote:no I don't agree with you and wait! who beat Shamrock? hahaha
and the Shamrock improved his ground game was bc of Royce Gracie
and yes him and his family changed MMA
actually MMA Started because of them.
They created VALETUDO in brazil so people could challenge them and then I think Rorion Gracie created UFC to show the world what Gracie Jiu Jitsu was/is all about.


Really, Go back and do your research Doug. First off Shammy was fighting ground and stand up before the Gracie clan had the MMA events. Second they brought about the MMA boom in the USA, but did not in South america. Who created Vale Tudo? Rorion Grace was approached by Robert Meyrowitz and Art Davie to bring the UFC style events to the USA. He was a key member and his only request was his little brother be allowed to fight in the tournament.
Vale tudo was not created by the Gracie family, it is an off shoot of Luta Livre a old style of competition for wrestling that came out of Portugal and seeing as Brazil is and was influenced by this country they saw this come to that country as well. While the Gracie clan has participated in this style of fight events they did not create it. And actually, Vale Tudo was first associated with a style of wrestling called Booth Wrestling that was very popular in Brazilian circus acts.

Now, I am guessing you are a BJJ student of the gracie clan, I have found that their are two kinds of BJJ fighters, the realists that know that BJJ is not the end all be all but is a great sport, guys like GOW and Gurre are these kind of wise and skilled guys...the other kind are the blind dilusional guys.

Gracie started the UFC, but not really MMA as it has evolved. Guys like Shamrock that put the true meaning of "Mixed" into the MMA are the guys we should thank for the evolution of the little idea the Gracies brought to the ring. With out guys like Shammy we would still see a bunch of BJJ guys battling wrestlers, Kick boxers and boxers with one Boxing glove...that and the sport would still be illegal and underground.
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:39 am

I am going to throw my few cents in here.

First, thank you for those kind words Kensei.

Second, nothing but respect to the Gracie family and their style of jiu-jitsu. They have done quite a bit for the martial arts world, but at the same time they have tried to hold it back too. Maybe it was unintentional, maybe not. But with their mentality of GJJ is the end all be all, to be honest, is wrong. It has it's pros and cons just like every other style of martial art and has it's applications for situations when it's needed.

Third, Royce never evolved, plain and simple. That's his own fault, the mentality he has about the end all be all martial art of GJJ. Give me a break, or is that what happened to his arm when he decided not to tap against Matt Hughes? Royce this is a MMA fight, not a JJ competition.

Also, I think Royce should have receive way more criticism than Sean Sherk for his use of an illegal substance. I mean it is Royce Gracie right?
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Postby Kensei » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:50 am

I think any one taking a banned substance or plan breaking the rules should be criticised, but I dont think name should make it worse, maybe I pitty him a bit more however.
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:11 am

I agree, but if everyone considers him a living legend and all that....

I see no reason to take or use illegal substances. Respect is lost when you find out someone has been caught.
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Postby Kensei » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:31 am

I agree!
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Postby fightDR » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:56 am

Royce will always have a strong legacy but the better fighters get and the better they do the more his legacy dies. Especially after what happened with him getting caught.
Respect the Gracies but really, what are they doing now? not enough to be talked about really. Yes i am aware that sounds rude.
Love all mma, and big UFC fan but I do miss Pride.
Big Supporter or British MMA so a shout out to Micheal Bisbing, Paul Taylor and Dan Hardy who are representing well and makeing their mark in the UFC!!!
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Postby Master-Doug » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:09 pm

Really, Go back and do your research Doug. First off Shammy was fighting ground and stand up before the Gracie clan had the MMA events. Second they brought about the MMA boom in the USA, but did not in South america. Who created Vale Tudo? Rorion Grace was approached by Robert Meyrowitz and Art Davie to bring the UFC style events to the USA. He was a key member and his only request was his little brother be allowed to fight in the tournament.
Vale tudo was not created by the Gracie family, it is an off shoot of Luta Livre a old style of competition for wrestling that came out of Portugal and seeing as Brazil is and was influenced by this country they saw this come to that country as well. While the Gracie clan has participated in this style of fight events they did not create it. And actually, Vale Tudo was first associated with a style of wrestling called Booth Wrestling that was very popular in Brazilian circus acts.

Now, I am guessing you are a BJJ student of the gracie clan, I have found that their are two kinds of BJJ fighters, the realists that know that BJJ is not the end all be all but is a great sport, guys like GOW and Gurre are these kind of wise and skilled guys...the other kind are the blind dilusional guys.

Gracie started the UFC, but not really MMA as it has evolved. Guys like Shamrock that put the true meaning of "Mixed" into the MMA are the guys we should thank for the evolution of the little idea the Gracies brought to the ring. With out guys like Shammy we would still see a bunch of BJJ guys battling wrestlers, Kick boxers and boxers with one Boxing glove...that and the sport would still be illegal and underground.



we should thank for the evolution of the LITTLE IDEA the Gracies brought to the ring ?
LITTLE ? if it was just a LITTLE idea, why does every single mixed martial artist knows GRACIE(braziian) JIU JITSU ? if Shamrock put the true meaning of MIXED like you said why did he lose to Royce ?
its simply and easy: brazilian jiu jitsu is the best one on one fight combat
what is a boxer going to do when a bjj guy takes him down ? when he in a triangle chock ? NOTHING. the hardest part is to take the person down and if you do that, their pretty much fucked
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Postby fightDR » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:14 pm

Yes but not all BJJ fighter can get their opponents to the Ground if so Dean Lister would prob be MW champ by now. what happens when the boxer keeps the fight upright did you see Cabbage vs Sean Alvearez (yes it was a while back but good example i thought lol)
Love all mma, and big UFC fan but I do miss Pride.
Big Supporter or British MMA so a shout out to Micheal Bisbing, Paul Taylor and Dan Hardy who are representing well and makeing their mark in the UFC!!!
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Postby Master-Doug » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:18 pm

that is the mean problem take the person down
but what happens if bhe bjj fighter does ?
and usually a boxer & some martial arts doesnt know how to defend a take down so okay maybe he is going to get punched a few times but then when he takes him down
whats going to happen? whats the boxer or any other martial artist is going to do?
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Postby fightDR » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:20 pm

Yes but you are missing the point, BJJ doesn't mean shit in mma if you can't incorparate it into mma style fighting. It's a different sport totally. Royce had VERY shit stand up and so do a few BJJ fighters, Lister and Cruz both ground masters but when they get made to stay on the feet they look terrible.
Love all mma, and big UFC fan but I do miss Pride.
Big Supporter or British MMA so a shout out to Micheal Bisbing, Paul Taylor and Dan Hardy who are representing well and makeing their mark in the UFC!!!
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Postby Master-Doug » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:23 pm

okay but my point is: BJJ is the most effective style of fighting and okay maybe you don't like royce or whatever but what about RICKSON GRACIE ? you can't say anything about him, he also showed what BJJ reallly is
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Postby fightDR » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:43 pm

I am not saying that Royce wasn't a great BJJ practitioner, and yes Rickson is bloody awesome. The problem is howevere they think that their BJJ is so awesome they don't cross train like they should. They are Jui-Jitsu masters but doesn't mean mma masters.
Love all mma, and big UFC fan but I do miss Pride.
Big Supporter or British MMA so a shout out to Micheal Bisbing, Paul Taylor and Dan Hardy who are representing well and makeing their mark in the UFC!!!
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Postby Master-Doug » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:08 pm

fightDR wrote:I am not saying that Royce wasn't a great BJJ practitioner, and yes Rickson is bloody awesome. The problem is howevere they think that their BJJ is so awesome they don't cross train like they should. They are Jui-Jitsu masters but doesn't mean mma masters.


I know they're not mma masters and that they dont train like they should but they still kick ass !!!
specially Rickson
people says he holds a record of 460-1
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Postby fightDR » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:26 pm

LOL, yeah and apparently so does Tank abbott haha. they all have stories haha.
Love all mma, and big UFC fan but I do miss Pride.
Big Supporter or British MMA so a shout out to Micheal Bisbing, Paul Taylor and Dan Hardy who are representing well and makeing their mark in the UFC!!!
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Postby Master-Doug » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:32 pm

fightDR wrote:LOL, yeah and apparently so does Tank abbott haha. they all have stories haha.



well i dont know
but who knows ?
I know he never lost a bjj match !
He has been the middle-heavyweight and open weight division World Jiu-Jitsu Champion for almost two decades. He is a two-time Brazilian Champion in freestyle wrestling and he is a Gold Medal Winner in Sambo.

so I don't know !
maybe he is ?
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