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TKD vs. Capoeira

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Postby kungfuvanity » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:17 pm

Capoeira has origin in Tae Kyon which is a root of Taekwondo. Tae Kyon and Capoeira are exactly the same.
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Postby stevebags » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:21 am

they dont look similiar
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Postby High kick = Nap time » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:31 am

What the hell is Tae Kyon? If they're the exact same then they're both all but useless imo. Comparing Capoeira to TKD is a fuckin insult to TKD. TKD may not be the most effective fighting art around but it's far from "Dance fighting"
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Postby kungfuvanity » Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:10 am

Tae Kyon is Korean Dance Fighting. Unless you've ever been to the Kukkiwon then you've probably never seen reall Tae Kyon. I think I have a video from our last Korea trip so that you can see that they are the same. Korean's were enslaved by the Jap's and some guys who did Tae Soo Do and Hwarangdo converted the techniques to a dance form, the same as Cap. Today Tae Kyon is only practiced by the Royal guys and shit like that with a few small exceptions, but it is also taught to ROK Army Officers. Thats how it got to a few places in the US.
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:41 am

"Origin-Problem Statement:
The first group of African slaves arrived in Brasil in 1537. These slaves were brought from Africa by the Portuguese explorers to work on the Brazilian's sugar cane plantations! The main ethnic group of slaves brought to Brasil were the "bantos" - from Angola, Golfo da Guiné and Congo; "sudaneses" - from Golfo da Guiné and Sudão; and "maleses" - from Angola and Costa da Mina. However, the origin of the Brazilian martial arts-dance form known as Capoeira is the subject of heated debate. There are those who adhere to the belief that Capoeira originated in Africa and was transported along with the slaves when they were brought to Brazil. There are others who say that the art form originated amongst the Afro-Brazilians in the "Senzalas", the living quarters for the slaves on Brazilian plantations. Others believe that Capoeira was practiced and used to fend off attacks by Portuguese slavers in Palmares, Brazil's most infamous "Quilombo" maroon colony of escaped slaves. There is no historical evidence to support any of these claims; many written documents regarding slavery in Brasil were burned when the first government of the new Republic was established. There is, however, evidence and agreement that Capoeira is aesthetically and philosophically an Afro-Brazilian art form. The most acceptable claim is that basing themselves on traditional African dances and rituals, these slaves developed the art in the work free hours left to them, thus training both mind and body for combat situations. As the slave-masters forbade any kind of martial art, it was cloaked in the guise of an innocent-looking recreational dance. In the 16th century, escaped-slaves founded a number of "Quilombos" , in which the art of Capoeira was further perfected. Many escaped-slaves, before they could reach the Quilombos, were captured by the "Capitão-do-mato" that ironically were sometimes African decedents or mulatos themselves. The "Capitão-do-mato" were hired by the Portuguese slavers and usually worked on their own. Capoeira was used not only in direct combat, it also inspired the battle strategy itself; feigning retreat, thus luring the over-confident enemy into remote territories only to strike back at an unsuspecting place and time. During the "Paraguai War" (1864 to 1870), many capoeiristas were sent to battle in the front line..."
Taken from http://www.capoeiranyc.com/study.html

Nowhere does it say that it originated in Korea.
Last edited by GrappleorWrestle on Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kungfuvanity » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:28 pm

No no thats not what i'm saying, but I will raise a good point first, who inslaved people in Africa? how did it get to Africa?

What in saying is that they evolved similarly, the Korean's weren't allowed to fight, but they were allowed to dance and practice religious ceremonies, hence the evolution from Tae Soo Do to Tae Kyon to Taekwondo. The african's would have practiced a style of Kung Fu brought by religious authorities trying to convert the Africans. That would have happened well before, or at least as, Portugal started transporting slaves to Brazil. which is were people can argue all they want, but it didn't come from the middle of nowhere it came from Monkey Kung Fu
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:09 pm

Then where did every other martial art come from? Hehe.
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Postby kungfuvanity » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:26 am

the quick answer is kung fu the long answer is GOD
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:54 pm

So Pankration that apparently came from the Greeks actually came from Kung Fu?
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Postby kungfuvanity » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:48 am

Shadow wrote:What about the hard core style taught in Korea, or the military TKD? Have you seen those guys, I don't think there weak.

TKD bashing seems common:I was first in line. With all that being said, I still can and do agree with most if not all that you said above, but I know about it only being suited for point tournaments. It just there tournament system sucks. That one point hit then stop, or coulda-woulda point technique is horrible to test your skill, but is that a reason to conclude that is TKD is score point style, not worthy of true combat?

So, is it that you think it is unstreet worthly to the average Joe or to a practioner of another other art?


I know im late, but I think I could sadd soomething useful here. The Military TKD that I saw on my one trip to Korea, was explained to me as being something different than just TKD. The militrary style is called Kuktookyi and is comprised of Hapkido(From AIKI JUJUTSU) Taekwondo Yudo, Kuk Sool, Hosinsol, Tae Kyon, Ki-Do (different from Hapkido), and Hwarangdo. Thats a lotta crazy shit put together, and it is pretty badass
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:50 am

Yeah, I think it is crazy how the "Military" styles usually differ so to speak. I hear the Krav Maga they teach in the Israeli Armed Forces is something to see.
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Postby kungfuvanity » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:57 am

on the Subject of PANK. there are exceptions to what I said before. The Greeks had fighting systems like Pank. and I didn't take those into consideration when I posted, my bad.

I have seen documents that show shaolin monks leaving the monk crib to go to the middle east and africa, and I can honestly say that I believe that some gave the african's the basic idea of monkey or a similar system, and they used that to build the basis of Cap.
If you really live this life, and you study the balls off of it, which you have to be a loser like me to do, then you'd know that there are at least 5 systems that are like Cap., that developed around the same time, all over the world. These guys didn't just wake up one morning and go" Fuck I feel like dancing and kicking someone's ass at the same time. lets do it" in 5 different countries all over the world.........................thats not realistic. Spain, Indonesia, Japan/China, Africa, Korea......all within 10 or 20 years of eachother develop "Dance Fighting Arts" Thats not immaculate conception, thats somebody spreading their seed around.
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Postby GrappleorWrestle » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:28 pm

True, but could someone else not have spread it? That is what we do not know, and something I would like to figure out. My problem is I just do not like it when people presume that every Martial Art came from or was invented from Asia. I know I am probably stepping on a few toes, but I just cannot see it. Yes, I believe they have influenced the Martial Arts greatly, but I do not believe every art stemmed from there.
Not to cross train cripples the martial arts, without it you can become a mechanic, but never an artist.
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Postby stevebags » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:50 pm

Boxing originated in England
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Postby Gurre » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:57 am

wind milling too, according to the facts I've read.
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