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djlang_18 wrote:Kensai, maybe this whole thing has been a big misunderstanding on both our parts, and for my part, I apologize. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Bruce was, indeed, not a fighter. I concur, that he was not a fighter in the sense of the word, as you defined.

Let me just ask one more question for clarificational purposes: Do you think that HAD Bruce been a fighter, he would've been, if not the best, at least in the top twenty (ever recorded)?

I respect your appology and offer mine in return if I ruffled any feathers with my comments I did not mean to and I think the clarification helped alot here.

Truthfully, I think that if Bruce had the option of going into MMA or full contact he would have been top five in his weight class, and possibly the best...dont know what kind of competition he would have had. I think with all his training and knowledge that he would have probably been one of the best if not the best. I still say he was not a fighter, but if he had been...he would have been crazy in his weight class.

Well, at least we agree on something.
I, too accept your apology and offer thanks for accepting mine. Friends?

djlang_18 wrote:Well, at least we agree on something.
I, too accept your apology and offer thanks for accepting mine. Friends?

works for me

You know, It would seem we really agreed all along, just needed to word things differently. I truly am sorry.

Oh, and have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Communication is a funny thing! one person can say the sky is blue and the other would say air is clear and has no color and they are talking about the same things but in different ways.

Have a good season yourself and watch the next UFC it is going to be fun man!

djlang_18 wrote:
If you don’t believe me, at least believe his closest friends, who trained with, sparred with, and conversed with him. Jhoon Rhee, Dan Inosanto, Linda Lee Caldwell (wife) and many others all confirm their beliefs that he was the best.


Of course they did.....Not only are they friends and family, but some of them are still collecting off his name. that would be like Elvis' family saying he was an okay singer! Get real, what are they going to say "well he was a fine actor, for a TMA actor and he was a fair Wing Chun guy with great physical conditioning? Not a good argument, if people he did not like said that he was great and guys that did not have a fortune riding on the name of their dead friend and family member came out saying he was great then I would put more weight in it...but OF COURSE THEY SAY THAT! Geez!!!

Agreed. In fact, they try to make something that Bruce wasn't, so to his art.

he had a bad temper!

Yes indeed.

I do know of a few second hand stories that dont paint him to well in the fight area

Kensei, share with us some of that stories. I will love to read them.

I practice JKD for about some years now and i think i can give me opinion, late but rather in good mood. I think that Kensei is right, sijo Lee never fight in a tournament, but he know his way very good and i use it and have very good results, i have i police record to prove it (no proud of) but i think that a MMA competition today Bruce not would be the best, he would make some noise, but not the best because we use grapping a floor fight as a complement, remember "the way of intercepting fist", we try to end the fight a second before it started or in the fast way. We use grapping as TKD guys uses in close range fight, as a complement (no offend), but if Bruce would still alive, baby, he would add more jujitsu and judo to JKD and that would be interesting!!!

I have to agree Kensei that he did not compete in competions any fights he was in was usally street fights. When he was growing up he got in many street fights, that was one of the reason for him coming up the mixed martial arts because so many things taught in classes at the time had no real fighting applications. So we will never really know how good he would have been in competion but if they were true mma competions he would have to have done pretty good at the time because most others only believed in using one style and as we all know now one style against mma doesnt work. But he was an inovater of the sport and we should all admire and thank him for that, just to bad we cant see him compete in mma now(if he was in his prime) or that he isnt around to see martial arts evolve like he knew it should.

I am to be honest tired of all this people complaining about Bruce not being a real fighter because there aren't that many of his fights recorded. Why does that matter so much?

Everyone says that the fact is that he didn't fight, the only fact is that it hasn't been recorded so we can't know. But what we can know is that he is a man whos style and techiniques was like the ones from another world, that he inspired the whole world with his skills and that many of the very elite in fighting today started fighting all because of him.

For example Bas Rutten started fighting because of Bruce and many many more, just that Bruce Lee couldn't compete in MMA or stuff like that doesn't mean anything. Instead of competing he spent his time training and creating new ways of fighting, constantly developing and improving his fighting and than sharing it to the world.

Now I get that all you people have a problem with him not competing, I would also have loved too see him fighting in MMA and I am sure of that if he would have lived today he would probably have done it but unfortunetley it will never happen, so please, stop talking shit about one of the greatest men to have ever lived.

Competition is entertainment.

Bruce is a Legend, it's as simple as that. We will never know the full extent of his skills as his life is shown to us in movies and we all know how true they are. But what we do know is that he changed the way Martial arts was done in movies by bringing skills to the screen that we had never seen before.
So by doing so he showed us he best Martial Arts we had ever seen at that point. That is what counts. Yes he was a skilled fighter but it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare to fighters of today so lets not bother trying but just appreciate him for what he was and did on screen, maybe what he did for Martial arts all over the world by making it so exciting.

fightDR wrote:Bruce is a Legend, it's as simple as that. We will never know the full extent of his skills as his life is shown to us in movies and we all know how true they are. But what we do know is that he changed the way Martial arts was done in movies by bringing skills to the screen that we had never seen before.
So by doing so he showed us he best Martial Arts we had ever seen at that point. That is what counts. Yes he was a skilled fighter but it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare to fighters of today so lets not bother trying but just appreciate him for what he was and did on screen, maybe what he did for Martial arts all over the world by making it so exciting.

Couldn't have said it better myself

osanchez wrote:Kensei, share with us some of that stories. I will love to read them.

Okay, here are two second hand stories that I can share with you...first off when he was younger he was not seen as a good wing chun fighter. His seniors used to pick on him because he was sloppy and did not focus his time on improving sparring. When he came back to Hong Kong to film his movies, he visited his old instructor..Yip Man..and he had a sparring match with one of Mans students and was beat soundly. then he tried with a more junior student and was beat soundly. Man shook his head and said..."still just sloppy and flashy I see"!
The other one had to do with his movie Enter the dragon and how Jim Kelly was sparring with him one day and "learning". he went a bit to fast and hurt bruces Ribs. he caught hell from the director and producer and was barred from training with him before the movie was done.

osanchez wrote:I practice JKD for about some years now and i think i can give me opinion, late but rather in good mood. I think that Kensei is right, sijo Lee never fight in a tournament, but he know his way very good and i use it and have very good results, i have i police record to prove it (no proud of) but i think that a MMA competition today Bruce not would be the best, he would make some noise, but not the best because we use grapping a floor fight as a complement, remember "the way of intercepting fist", we try to end the fight a second before it started or in the fast way. We use grapping as TKD guys uses in close range fight, as a complement (no offend), but if Bruce would still alive, baby, he would add more jujitsu and judo to JKD and that would be interesting!!!

I agree, Lee was just starting to develop new ideas when he died. I am sure if he was alive he would have his students doing Jitsu as well.

All I will say is that Chuck was a point and full contact Karate fighter....Bruce was an actor and Martial arts instructor that never competed! Nuff said!

I thought I did put my personal thoughts forward? Anyways, restarting old threads is fine by me....sometimes others come in with good stuff to add....no big deal!

It is more a Budo vs Sport way that I see it. Some people get involved in martial arts to be a life long student and may do some sports, but the main focus is betterment of the person on many different levels (to deep to chat about here and now) and the sport guy comes in from another sport (wrestling or kickboxing) and tries their hand at fighting. They get a pay day, enjoy the challenge and then retire and coach others for money or just drop off the face of the earth.

Lee was a martial arts student/teacher but not a fighter. Norris is a martial artist that faught, but guys like Diaz, Shamrock ext...once they are done with the sport will not train and will not be involved in the Budo aspect of training if they even run a club!