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[Kensei]

As many of you know I have been teaching Karate for about 20 years Training for almost three decades, and I have been doing Judo/sambo for about 10 years before I stopped grappling. I also had a tone of experinece running from one club to another and checking out different styles. I can say that in my home town we have a good mix of styles in the last few years and I have seen my share of match ups in the bars and on the dojo floors....Here is what I have seen.

Boxing vs Bouncer
When I was bouncing I recall a situation between a 300 plus pound bouncer and a 145 pound boxer. the bouncer was making fun of the boxer and out of no were a punch landed square on the chin of the bouncer and KO'd the big lug for about five minutes. Funny how size does not matter in a situation like that one.

Boxing vs JudoKa
Years ago, we are talking the 70's here, I took Judo in a club that had some boxing in the basement. One night a boxer came up stairs and figured he would beat up a Judoka. He picked on a big Polish Judoka because he was blond, very young looking but looked big enought that it would not look like he picked on a young kid. I remember the guy had taped hands and he was pushing the poor guy around pretty bad. The Judo instructor was a old English policeman and right away ran up to break up the fight. But he did not let it go at that. He had the boxer, who was actually rather good, come into the middle of the Judo mats and show off his tallents against the young Judoka. The instructor said it was fine and that the Judo guy could do what ever he wanted. They fixed the boxer up in a Judo top and let the fight go. The poor boxer got one shot in and it landed on the Judokas shoulder, but then the throw fest began. He was tossed on his head, his back, landed on his butt hard and then finally the young guy got him in a Rear naked on the ground and the guys eyes bugged out as the blood slowly was cut off to his brain. lights out!

Boxer vs Karateka
I can remember my first real hands on training when I went into the army. We all lined up and got boxing gloves? Yah, boxing gloves. The Canadian army has just recently updated the fighting part of the training to include grappling and what I would call smart striking, but when I went in it was more like boxing for the first while. I was a smart ass and had issues with one of the drill instructors who was teaching. As we were going threw drills with our partners I guess I let slip that I thought the boxing was stupid and the next thing I knew I was spun around and ate a mit full of leather. I admit it was a hard punch, but I was still aroudn and as I got up he had a few words for me. I can not recal what he said exactly but it was something like "what do you have to say now?" and I straightened up and said sorry. Then he finished with "Ha, Karate is crap, thats what I thought"....to this I had to retort that he was full of gas and a moron. So, the challenge was on. He spun in his shoes and told me to defend myself. the first three puches were so horrible that I almost bust out laughing. Then I realized he was serious. The one kick I threw was a round house to his temple that put him out for twenty minutes. No one was told about the KO as the guy was so embarassed and for the rest of the course he gave me a wide berth. Six months later I got out of the course and was a junior officer and out ranked him. He did not bring it up ever.

Thai vs Karate Ka
At one time while I was teaching I had a Thai boxer try out a class of mine. He was younger and mouthy. After the class he was working out, or rather beating on a student of mine. After a few minutes of chatting he tried to "show me" how to do it! after a good leg kick I had enough of this mouthy kid and swept him a few times and knocked the wind out of him. I have to say that his "showing me how to do it" was alot like "kick my ass I deserve it" in my books.

Thai vs Wrestler
I can recall seeing a high school wrestler in school one day challenge a kid in the back of the high school. it was not pretty, the wrestler locked up with the Thai boxer and thought he would take the fight to the floor, but the Thai boxer used his knees and elbows and the wrestler was a bloody mess in about three seconds and out in four! That was the first time I saw Thai boxing to be truethfull and it was pretty darn impressive.

Thai vs Bouncer
As a bouncer in the earlly 90's I can tell you I saw alot of martial arts in the Bars. Most were from drunk kids with a few years of training. but one night I saw a thai boxer come into the bar. Nice guy. but he got in a bit of a scuffle and before we knew it he was outside beating on some kid. We ran out and one of the more senior bouncers grabbed him from behind and swung him off the other kid. after a terse moment or two the Thai boxer took it that we wanted a fight, He took down four bouncers in about a minute. The only thing that saved us was I had a bat and the cops were on their way. I used the bat on his leg and that pretty much ended the fight, when the cops came they knew the brawling Thai boxer and were not at all shocked that he took out the four bouncers, who all ended up in the hospital that night. He had a record for beating up a cop at one point...Dude was just bad man!

Judo vs bouncer
Years ago I was walking by a down town bar after a good work out, it was back in the day when young adults could walk around the tougher area of town and not worry to much about getting jumped or worse. The local bar was a watering hole for the down and out and the dojo was just down the street from it. One night I was wandering home and one of the senior black belts had gone into the bar a while before I was walking by and ended up iritating one of the bouncers. The larger biker/bouncer asked him to step out side and I wandered past on the way to the bus. The sceen was kind of scary. Big bouncer in a tough area pushing a person I respected a great deal around. It took two pushes before the Senior in judo found the bouncers timing and on the third push he grabbed and pulled the bouncer off balance and then up and over his shoulder onto a fire hydrant head back first. The throw ended up breaking two of the bouncers ribs and ended the fight right their. I waited as the police spoke with my senior and even gave a bit of a account to one of the police officers. In the end the bouncer was hospitalized over night and sent home. My senior was let go as it was seen as self defense. The bouncer was fired from what I was told and my senior was kicked out of the dojo for three months for fighting. In the end though my senior was happy to have had the experience. It proved that Judo can work in a self defense situation.

Judo vs BJJ
Back when BJJ first came to winnipeg it was new to most of the grapplers. They had some submissions, but had never seen a sysltem based so much on slick submissions. I had given up Judo a few years before this due to a nagging shoulder issue I developed by landing on it in a tournament. But a few of my buddies still did Judo and we would goof around outside in the summers and practice a few throws. One day a buddy of mine who did Judo and Thai boxing told me of a guy that did BJJ that was coming over the day I was going to help him move his side walk around. As "boys" will do, we ended up win some impromptu Randori. The BJJ guy showed up and was nice enough, till we told him of our Judo back ground and that we were old friends from Judo class. He stated bad mouthing Judo right off the hop...actually he bad mouthed about every martial art you could name from Judo to Aikido, Kenpo, Karate and about anything else you could imagine. He was a Gracie guy and nothing was as good period. Ross and I pretty much felt the same way, people who talk...talk, people who do...do. Ross grabbed this guy and tossed him like a rag doll to the ground four times, but on the fifth, the guy pulled Ross into his guard and with in a minutes had worked out of a choke attempt that Ross had tried...Tee shirts are hard to use for a collar choke! And then he pulled up his legs, pivoted and ended up with Ross in a arm bar! It was slick, quick and he did it after fighting off a few chokes. Not bad, and besides the attitude it showed me that BJJ can be used and it should be studied if you are going to fight with a guy with submission skills.

Kung fu vs KarateKa
Growing up I had two heros, Bruce lee when I was a teen and Ali! I thought that Kung fu guys were unbeatable..well in the movies! I had been training in Karate for a decade by the time I was 17 and I had been doing Judo for almost a decade! One of the local kids was a Kung fu guy and he did not look a thing like Bruce lee. First off he was a white kid with brown hair, but he was built like a gymnast and lean as hell. He could fall into the full splits and do some interesting areal stuff. He normally did not have an attitude and I had never seen him fight. I had however seen him do some amazing things in the school yard fooling around with flips and jumps that made most high school gymnists look pretty bad. His name was Jamie and I wont forget how intense his style looked. they used claws and jumping kicks with hand slaps and he always looked the part of the "tiger" or feirce beats he was showing off. he wold run at a wall and run up the wall, flip and land in a crouch with his claw hands shreding his imaginary agressor.
One day Jamie was in the school yard and some guy picked a fight with him. The guy picking the fight was a Chito ryu black belt I knew and had trained with on occasion. He was not bad and he liked to fight. The fight was pathetic. Jamie first did not want to fight at all, but the Chito guy was pushing him really bad. After a minute the Chito guy had kicked jamie in the leg. And Jamie was now ready to fight....or he thought he was. For all his fancy forms and feirce ripping claws he stood no chance in a real fight. I felt bad and after the first few punches rocked Jamie and the kick to the guts doubled him over I stepped in and stopped the fight. Jamie found out the one thing I had come to understand along time ago. Forms teach you basics and give you hints on how to fight...but they must be followed up with partner training and some actual sparring.

JKD vs BJJ
around the time that BJJ was getting alot of air time and more popular because of the UFC, we also saw JKD or Jeet Kune Do come out of the shadows and make a showing. The problem was that many different styles of Bruce lees art came out and while calling themselves a fighting art, they were very new and had little actual fighting experience. One guy I knew, who was a tallented boxer and a good Tae Kwon Do guy took up the "art" and visited some instructor in the states to get lessons and work up the ranks of this style. About two years into his training he ended up at university teaching a small group of guys. He told every one how effective his style was and how it was personal based...bla, bla...yadda yadda! So, one day a new student of his challenged him...I guess, I was running on the track above the gym....I stopped to watch. the JKD guy was dancing around and throwing jabs..then a shin kick and a stop kick ( place foot on shin to try and stop the other guy from moving). As I stood watching the JKD guy kind of looked like a bad version of Bruce lee, ducking his head and eyeing up the student like he was going to eat him alive. Then the BJJ guy rammed his shoulder into the midsection of the instructor, grabbing both legs and basicall tripped the instructor to the ground. It only took about four slaps and he had full mount, were he swivelled and had a basic arm bar. I could hear the pop one story above the sparring match and the BJJ guy let go slowly and the JKD guy did not get up, grabbing at his dislocated elbow. I stopped jogging and went to take a shower before heading off to class. In the showers the BJJ guy walked in and we chatted for a bit, he was a white belt at a local gym and did not think he was all that good...The JKD guy probably did!

JKD vs Karateka
I lived on the west coast for about two years and during this time I pretty much tasted every martial art I could get my hands on. I took Praying Mantis (fun but not really usable by me), Wing Chun, Aikido, two styles of Shotokan Karate, Goju ryu, Tai Chi (in the park) and finally JKD. The club I went to in Canada was not great, the guy I trained with in the states was good. But back to the great white north club! My third day their one of the guys found out I was a black belt in Karate. He started razing me and finally we ended up all suited up in the boxing gloves and hockey shin pads ready to spar. We also had the annoying head gear on and a mouth full of mouth guard. I was used to bare knuckle fighing with no gear at all. And here I was fighting with gloves, cup, foul protector ( I know, I know) Shin guards, and a head guard...I was very "full" feeling. the round went okay and both of us tagged each other pretty good. But after the sparring round I took off all my stuff and he was mouthing off to his corner guy about how easy it was to "beat on me". I normally dont take stuff like this serious at all, but I guess I did that day. I told the guy taking my gloves off that the other guy was lucky we were equiped with "pussy protectors" and if it had been a real fight he would have been picking up a few teeth after the fight. this, by the way, is very out of charactor for me. As I stepped out of the ring and on to the mat he spun me around and sucker punched me. At first I thought it was the instructor coming over to give me crap for the comment I had made, but I realized about half a blink away from impact it was the bully guy. The punch was not the worst I had ever taken, and loopy so it lacked power. It did not knock me down, but I did stagger back a bit. I basically got tunel vision and went for the guy...the rest of the gym apparently was used to this guy loosing it, but was not used to anyone going back after him...nor was he. my foot landed clean on his chin and then my fist went right for the mouth...I still had my hand wraps on one hand and used it to smash him right in the kisser. he went down like a tone of bricks ....and as promised had three teeth to pick up when he woke up!

BJJ vs Karateka/Judo/Sambo
A bunch of years ago, when I still taught Karate, we used to do a bit of Sambo after class, with subs and throws on the mats. Mostly I did this with the kids and went easy on them so I did not hut them. some of the kids were alot bigger than me however and it was a great work out. I got a bit of a reputation in the club because I had pushed a few of the black belts for 30-45 minutes in grappling and really loved the work outs. One day a brown belt from the head quarters dojo took my class and after wanted to do some rolling. I had no idea that he was taking BJJ at the time and basically did not protect myself at all. I scrambled in to get a take down and tripped him to his back. Here I thought I was beating the guy and having an easy time of it at that...but as he went down he hooked his arm over my head, to my back and pulled me in. I thought at first I was going to have an easy time because he went down so easy, but then I realized he had me in a guillotine choke! It was slick, fast and I felt like a fool falling for a basic choke like that. I tapped out pretty quick as the birds started circling my head. It was the first time I had ever tapped out by choke. I had tapped for a few ankle hooks and knee bars in sambo, but had not tapped in judo when they choked me, I mistakenly thought I was unchokable.....wow, was I wrong.
I later went to a tournament he was in to watch him fight, I did not tell him I was their and left before he saw me, as it turned out he was a white belt, won a Gi round, and then lost one. Beat the same guy in the no gi, and then lost to another guy. Very humbling to know I was choked out by a guy who was just a beginner and not that great to begin with. About a month later I went to the mats with him again, and was much more careful this time. I mostly defended and he could not sub me at all, but we both gassed out after a while and both stopped to rest. I realize at this point how good BJJ is for ground fighting.

Karate Vs Boxer
one of my seniors went into the RCMP and took the RCMP self defense training. He said it was basically boxing. He was a black belt in Karate and had a hard time adjusting to the no kicking and blocking with your arms or absorbing the blow kind of training. One time we were training with a fellow RCMP recruit after they left Regina and were back home. he brought the guy to the club to train and I ended up sparring with him doing Go Kumite or hard full contact style training. He got beat bad by about four of us, we took it easy on him, but his way of blocking fists and feet just got him beat up. Soon after he was shipped up north and last I heard he had formed a training program with the other officers to learn Karate and not boxing as a way of defending themselves.

Karate Vs Street fighter
Back in the 80's I used to hang out down town alot. Go to movies and go to the club to train, off to work and back again. One night after work and the club I ended up cutting down a back ally to go grab a bus home. I know, it is the perfect set up for a "what not to do" commercial or something. So, this guy ends up following me into the ally. I am not a big guy and as he figured he could take me he caught up with me half way between the two streets in the back ally. He grabbed me, spun me around and tried to punch me in the gut, luckily for me he didnot have a knife! His fist bounced off my stomach as I tensed it and he kind of looked at me and took a step back and put up his hands like a boxer. I was working some security at a construction site and had on my steel toe boots. I kicked him twice, once in the shin and then up to his head. the shin shot had his hands drop just enough for the heavy work boot to club threw his hand into his skull. He stumbled back and tried to swing at me. I sunk my fist into his gut then used my elbow on his teeth. He sat down hard and then picked himself up and ran like hell...with a limp. I ran after him thinking I would stop him for the cops, I sunk my foot into his groin as he ran away, between the legs and up. He swerved and ran down a side ally way. At that point I realized I was running after a guy that probably had a knife or worse and stopped! At that point I have to admit that I puked my cookies out! Adrenaline hit and the crash was enough to empty all the popcorn I had eaten that day out into the ally.

Tae Kwon Do Vs street fighter
I have told the story of the TKD champion against the CNR worker, so I wont go into details.... The TKD guy picked a fight, went out side and wanted to warm up first, did the splits...and the rail yard worker stepped on his nuts...moral of the story dont show off when you should be fighting!

Tae Kwon do Vs Judoka
I dont think I will forget the time a senior instructor in Tae Kwon Do set up shop in winnipeg and felt it was neccessary to go around challenging other instructors in just about any martial art. he got a bit of a rep for being a dirty fighter and also for challenging the older instructors then trying to steal students when the other instructors lost or turned him down. One night at the univeristy club I went to this idiot showed up and started challenging the senior instructor. the Tae Kwon Do guy was in his early 30's, very athletic and was very obnoxious. The Judo instructor was in his 60's and looked like he was a bit out of shape, even though he was not. The Tae Kwon do guy was relentless. He called the instructor names, said Judo was crap and went after him pushing him a bit here and their till the 60 year old finally lost his temper and cleared the floor. All of the students were told that this was an friendly training session with a fellow martial artist. The Tae Kwon Do guy looked happy as could be and also a bit excited at the fact he was going to kick the Judokas head off...but he did not know that the Judo instructor was a well known Sumo fighter and had a history of tournament success in Sumo and Judo. The first few seconds were all Tae Kwon do, the guy would throw kicks with his arms down near his sides and land some good snappy shots to the arms of the Judo instructor. Then it happened. My instructor (well my instructors instructor) slapped the Tae Kwon Do instuctor right upside the head so hard that he fell over. Almost totally out, The Tae Kwon Do instructor tried to get back up, but the JudoKa grabbed him, picked him up and slammed him down with a hip toss, then a shoulder throw, a Rice bag throw and he rolled over, in full mount he did a cross lapell choke till the younger challenger was a nice purple and out cold. They dragged the TKD guy off the mats and we went back to practice. Funny thing is that the TKD guy set up shop and never mentioned the day he got choked out by the old man!

Tae Kwon do Vs boxer
way back in high school we used to have a bully that was a well known boxer in our area. I was in Grade 10 and a new student came in to the school. he was quiet and very nice. I remember taking math with him and he was smart as a whip as well. Come to think of I should have studied with him a bit more. Anyways, the bully took notice of him and started pestering him. He would grab him and shove him against the wall, bounce into him, call him names and basically raz the hell out of him. the new kid also had a "girls name" Kim. You name the racial slur, he got it both barrells. One day in the library I was checking out my "best Karate" book and he saw it. for the first time he spoke to me and said he did that! I said what, He said Tae Kwon Do. quickly I told him it was Karate and not Tae Kwon Do. He said no, that is Tae Kwon Do...after a few minutes I showed him it was my styles head instructor and he and I got to chatting. He was a black belt in Korea before he moved to Canada with his family. I found that strange as he never reacted to jarvis attacks.
About a month later, Jarvis..the bully had picked up his campane of going after Kim and one day after a particularly bad day he went after Kim in the hall way. Jarvis was smoking and he blew smoke in his face and started yelling at him. Jarvis never saw the foot coming or were it went. The smoke was out of his mouth and Kim was trying to walk away. I was clear down the hall and saw the whole thing. Jarvis swung at Kim and before you could blink your eye Kim had landed a kick to Jarvis arm and one to his head. Kim said very shyly sorry and walked away from the now unconcious bafoon boxer! Kim was the school hero for about month after that. Jarvis transfered to another school shortly after that and the whole thing was forgoten.

Wrestler vs boxer
Like I said, I was bouncing for a while and one of the guys I worked with was a semi-Pro boxer in town....not sure what semi means as well...so dont ask. He was actually built kind of like a body builder and looked like he could bench press my car, but he was fast with his hands and hit hard. He KO'd a few guys in bar fights and I trusted that he could take care of himself. One night a guy was getting picked on pretty bad and he figured he had enough and started fighting with two guys on the upper level of the bar. The boxer had not seen what was building up to this and went after the wrestler. it was the fastes take down I had ever seen! This guy shot in and grabbed a double, lifted Clive up and slammed him so hard to the floor he was KO'd on impact. that was it. The boxer had thrown three punches that all missed as the guy shot in and ended the fight like that. He was actually really nice after that and stayed around to see how Clive was doing. He said he did not see who was pulling him around and did not see the Security written on the shirt. otherwise he said he would have backed off. Clive came to and said that was the first time he had been KO'd ever.

Philipino fighter vs street fighter
I can say with out a doublt that the toughest and most dangerous man I know is a sewer worker here in Winnipeg. the guy is also the nicest guy around. but one night me and Dave Patagan were hanging out at a bar after I taught Karate and I saw him take out five bikers and almost kill all of them. After Karate Monday nights I used to go to a local pub for a beer with a few students and buddies. I met Dave seven years ago and he was just a normal Philipino guy that hung out with us. I knew he trained in Kali and Escrima but had no idea what that was really. We were sitting around drinking beer and watching boxing on the tv when two bikers felt that a asian in the bar was just not to their liking. I was very nervous because these guys were tough and only my student Mel was over 5'7". we all weighed about a hundred and sixty to a hundred and eighty pounds and the smallest of the guys made us look like children next to them. Other than Mel, who was six six and about two seventy easy, I was five five, Dave was five even and the other students were about my height. I know, short table!
Dave was bugged for about ten minutes, we were all a bit nervous and he said dont worry, and ordered us a round. when it got to the table he stood up and said he had to visit the bathroom. what happened next scared the living hell out of me...and I have seen some crazy stuff!
He walked to the bath room and two of the five guys followed after him, I ran to get a few of the bouncers and follow them in to help out, but we were really not needed.....by the time I got to the first bouncer Dave was leaving the rest room.....alone! the other three guys probably knew what had happened to their buddies and jumped Dave! The first ones knee snapped right off the bat! Dave had kicked it so hard that the knee basically sheered apart, remembering the sound makes my stomach flip to this day, the guy went white and fell down, his leg hurt so bad he would not even touch it. It was twisted behind him and the image was enough to cause several patrens to shreak!
Dave was then attacked with a pool stick that he blocked and took out of the hands of the guy swining it. It ended up slamming accross the bridge of the big mans nose and mashing it down...Think Rich franklin after the knees. Dazed by the strike, the big man staggered back, but Dave did not let it go! he broke the pool stick on the guys leg and used the broken thicker end to hit him probably ten times before you could blink, face-chest-arm-chest-leg-face-hand-leg-head-chest-face-gutt. I think a automatic rifle would have to admit he was faster!
The fifth guy ran in and caught the broken stick across his forehead and the blood erupted from the guys face right away, but Dave lost the stick bouncing off the skull of the tall blond! The guy grabbed hold of Daves Jacket and lifted him up, Dave did not miss a beat and he dug both thumbs into the guys eye sockets up to the last knuckle. The guys legs buckled and he went down dropping dave on his feet.....he took three steps back and as we watched motionless he punted the guy right in the face with his work boots. End of fighter...er...end of fighters.
The two guys in the bath room were found five minutes later, one out cold face down in a floor urinal, covered in piss and what ever else was in the piss catcher! and the second was sitting in a stall out cold with broken bits of the stall all around him, probably having saved himself from drowning in the crapper after dave gave him the dunk!
Dave ended up in jail for the night and got community service for his brawl, six weeks community service. two of the guys ended up needing surgery for major internal damages, the guy with the screwed up leg had to have major work done to reconstruct his knee. One of the guys had a broken jaw, cracked skull and broken arm. Dave was also banned from the bar! The judge apparently felt it started as self defense but Dave went a bit to far......
I still say he is the single most dangerous man you will never hear about....oh, and he was 55 when he did this!

[Asa87]

HOLY SHIT! good strories, i just wasted a good amount of time at work reading them. haha. your story telling is pretty good aswell, real vivid, your quite good at painting a picture. DAVE SOUNDS LIKE A NUTTER!!!! i have a freind called dave who is a weapon aswell, but not that bad. dude sounds like jet li!

one question - what's a lapell choke?

[Asa87]

is it the one where you use the Gi collar and cross your arms over? or am i thinking of something else?

[Kensei]

HOLY SHIT! good strories, i just wasted a good amount of time at work reading them. haha. your story telling is pretty good aswell, real vivid, your quite good at painting a picture. DAVE SOUNDS LIKE A NUTTER!!!! i have a freind called dave who is a weapon aswell, but not that bad. dude sounds like jet li!

one question - what's a lapell choke?

Their are several, the one I refer to is the Juji version were you grab the lapell with a cross crip then pull the arms appart while leaning in .

[Kensei]

Boxer vs Karateka: That reminds me of my story, we were being cocky saying what we shouldn't have been saying and had to answer to the instructor. Of course, mine were with the student, and yours was a step up, beating the instructor.

He was a drill Sgt. who probably learned how to box in the army. Which in my mind is not very high end. I have seen some boxers that were so good it was scary and even sparred with a few. Not all boxing vs Karate would go this way I am sure. but I do have to point out that we train with four limbs, they train with two. So they better do very well to finish the fight and keep the distance inside the kicking distance.

Thai vs. Bouncer: Was the Thai Boxer crippled, you'd think so after being hit with a bat in the legs?

No, but he sure did not walk right for a while. I nailed his thigh with the first shot and it must have stung because his whole body tensed up and then he started at me, I backed off and when he went after a close by bouncer I nailed the back of his legs and then his shin, he was in alot of pain, but he ended up walking...probably with a good limp, out of the hospital while two bouncers had to spend a night or two.

JKD vs BJJ: That's got to suck a white belt beating an instructor; I hope that was the white belts first MA. If so that make the instructor look even worse.

The class did not know the guy was a white belt, so maybe he could save face by not spreading that around. i dont know if it was the other guys first martial art, I dont recal him ever saying so. You know, being cocky against anyone is dumb. I have been told so many stories about guys with little to no experience getting the upper hand in a real life situation. One guy I know is a purple belt in BJJ and pretty good from what I have been told. I have seen him roll and he looks damn good to me. Tones of trophies from local tournaments and ones he has traveled to...but he got his ass handed to him in a street fight because he was not used to people punching him in the face!

JKD vs Karateka: LMAO, you get cool point for the teeth on the floor....new school hero!

No I left shortly after that. Like I said this is not like me. I prefer to not fight outside of a sparring match as no one really wins. The guy could have charged me and I could have gone to jail for that kick punch combo! I was pretty lucky and I hope I have learned to take those idiots better since then! I am sure that he is still an idot as he is the kind of guy that does not learn to fast!

The last story was crazy, and to think he was 55. That one guy that got his eyes goudged out, was he blinded.

I have no idea if the guy had any kind of perminent damage, no blood and no sign of eyes being damaged to any real extent, but really it happened so fast and we were in shock...hell the bouncers stopped dead and put their hands up till it was all over like saying...."no thats okay dont hurt us". I remember Dave saying something about being in the war or army in the Philipinese but I dont remember to much more than that, Have not seen or spoken to him in almost 15 years. I remember his buddy coming in to the bar a few months later and telling us Dave was banned and he had all this Community service to do but he was happy to have not gotten hurt.

Oh, and the funny part....Daves old lady beat the hell out of him with a broom for getting into the fight! I still crack up at that one!!

[qwerty]

I need to move to Manitoba, CA! I don't get any action where I am from!

[shift]

Thugjitsu is the best art ever. Aggressive stand up and aggressive wrestling...I can't wait for Yves Edwards to make a decent come back.

[Kensei]

His brother told me!